https://forums.cubicle7.co.uk/
Tra-la-la, we are just sneaking around the ruins of Mordor collecting information for the Steward of Gondor, enjoying the spring of 2940... Wait... We're getting a bad feelings about this...Glorelendil wrote:Agreed! That would be great! And very Tolkien-esque: you aren't expected to kill the BBEG and take his stuff, you just have to survive.
True direct confrontation with the big bad guys isn't really a theme of Tolkien's work but neither is merely surviving. It's more about putting yourself in damaged to either strike at the big bad guy or to steal his stuff.zedturtle wrote:Hmmm?
Bilbo was hired because Gandalf and Thorin saw no hope in trying to get a Hero to kill the Dragon. Admittedly, their plan is quite a bit vague anyways, but it did work out in the end.
Frodo isn't trying to destroy Sauron, just the Ring. Aragorn's entire ploy at the Morannon is a distraction... there is no serious effort to confront Sauron directly. Of course, it does work out in the end.
Eowyn doesn't quest to defeat the Witch King. She's just protecting her King and father-figure. Of course, it worked out in the end.
Frodo refuses to strike at Saruman, even though he's personally responsible for the torment of his friends and the death of Boromir. Of course, it worked out in the end (sort of... Wormtongue died too).
You're right, the heroes do end up destroying their enemies. But it's mostly by happenstance and the response (most of the time) to "There's a Big Bad over there!" is to avoid it if possible.
That makes more sense.Glorelendil wrote:By "Tolkien-esque" I was referring more to avoiding trouble (in the form of direct confrontation) in general and not specifically to "merely surviving", even though the latter theme shows up a lot.
Now, if your Fellowship happens to have any of the White Council sending them on missions......Rue wrote:Tra-la-la, we are just sneaking around the ruins of Mordor collecting information for the Steward of Gondor, enjoying the spring of 2940... Wait... We're getting a bad feelings about this...Glorelendil wrote:Agreed! That would be great! And very Tolkien-esque: you aren't expected to kill the BBEG and take his stuff, you just have to survive.
Huh. Of course, the fact that things do tend to work out is the hand of Eru Ilúvatar in motion. I actually find that to be core to the gaming in Middle-earth experience... that heroes who step up and do the right thing at great cost are going to find out that the world has been improved by their actions and pain, even if they themselves have suffered and lost. And, of course, that philosophy justifies a great amount of gaming conceits and "lucky breaks".fjw70 wrote:But you do bring up an interesting point. In Tolkien's work things just sort of work themselves out. To me that is why I am not interested in using Tolkien's themes for a game and more interested in using the world he created. Tolkien wasn't creating a game he was just telling stories and could make things work out.
And that's the reason I want to game in the world he created.zedturtle wrote:Huh. Of course, the fact that things do tend to work out is the hand of Eru Ilúvatar in motion. I actually find that to be core to the gaming in Middle-earth experience... that heroes who step up and do the right thing at great cost are going to find out that the world has been improved by their actions and pain, even if they themselves have suffered and lost. And, of course, that philosophy justifies a great amount of gaming conceits and "lucky breaks".fjw70 wrote:But you do bring up an interesting point. In Tolkien's work things just sort of work themselves out. To me that is why I am not interested in using Tolkien's themes for a game and more interested in using the world he created. Tolkien wasn't creating a game he was just telling stories and could make things work out.
That isn't what I was talking about. I was referring to things like the Bilbo and the dwarves pissing off Smaug and then getting trapped in the mountain, but it doesn't matter because someone else (an NPC) takes care of the dragon. Or an NPC like Gandalf stepping in to take on the Balrog so the rest of the Fellowship could get away. Those things work fine for the novels but I am not sure how a satisfying game could be modeled that way.zedturtle wrote:Huh. Of course, the fact that things do tend to work out is the hand of Eru Ilúvatar in motion. I actually find that to be core to the gaming in Middle-earth experience... that heroes who step up and do the right thing at great cost are going to find out that the world has been improved by their actions and pain, even if they themselves have suffered and lost. And, of course, that philosophy justifies a great amount of gaming conceits and "lucky breaks".fjw70 wrote:But you do bring up an interesting point. In Tolkien's work things just sort of work themselves out. To me that is why I am not interested in using Tolkien's themes for a game and more interested in using the world he created. Tolkien wasn't creating a game he was just telling stories and could make things work out.
Oh I agree it is a great game world. I just don't want to tell the same types of stories he told. Different types of stories in the same world sort of thing.Glorelendil wrote:And that's the reason I want to game in the world he created.zedturtle wrote:Huh. Of course, the fact that things do tend to work out is the hand of Eru Ilúvatar in motion. I actually find that to be core to the gaming in Middle-earth experience... that heroes who step up and do the right thing at great cost are going to find out that the world has been improved by their actions and pain, even if they themselves have suffered and lost. And, of course, that philosophy justifies a great amount of gaming conceits and "lucky breaks".fjw70 wrote:But you do bring up an interesting point. In Tolkien's work things just sort of work themselves out. To me that is why I am not interested in using Tolkien's themes for a game and more interested in using the world he created. Tolkien wasn't creating a game he was just telling stories and could make things work out.