Bow's and Great Bows

[Eclipse]

I see no reason to penalize the great bow. It is the weapon of choice for the dedicated archer, while the humble Bow is the backup weapon for melee types and for smaller player-characters. Bows as a weapon category have enough drawbacks and dedicated archers will find themselves in situations where their specialisation is rather useless more often than melee player-characters, I guess.

My only gripe is that Woodelves do not get the great bow in their starting weapon skills at all, and that their one Cultural Reward is for bow only. In my mind, Elves are fairly proficient archers. I get that the whole character generation is about trade-offs, and I even see the in-game logic behind forest dwellers using smaller bows (why great bows for Woodmen, though?), but it just does not feel right for me. Luckily, our own Woodelf is mainly concerned about melee, so less encumbering (backup) bow is perfect for her.

By the way, the same goes for Woodelves and spears. Their Spearman's Shield seems to be made for use with a great spear, but the Bitter Spear reward can only be used for a spear, not a great spear, and a simple spear can already be used in conjunction with a shield.

[Angelalex242]

The text of bitter spear is These spears were made with ash wood from what is now called Dol Guldur, once home to many woodland Elves.

So there's a simple fix. Great Spears can be bitter, it just takes a bigger chunk of Dol Guldur ash wood.

(also, Spearman's shield could technically be used with a Longsword too. Name aside, the text says ANY Two Handed Weapon could be used with 'spearman's' shield.

If the GM is a stickler and says no EXISTING Bitter Great Spears exist, nothing stops the Brave Elf and his companions from going to the Dark Lands of Dol Guldur and cutting an ash tree down to carve some Dol Guldur wood into any shape he darn well pleases.

[James Harrison]

No - there is no penalising Great bows, just the rules of shooting in woods - the house rule is for bows to ignore 2 points of Cover bonus. Then the fluff of "mirkwood elves use bows, as they are not to big etc. good in forests" makes mechanical snece; also the culture that drew this to my attention was the Woodemen... if I have the (Bows) group I want a reason to use both a bow and a great bow at different times.

Don't thini Bitter spears should be given to great spears. Great spears are already very good - having the 1 in 12 chance of being TN 22 makes them great axes, but better.

[Angelalex242]

Not necessarily. Since I've been enlightened Axe of Az applies weary BEFORE protection is rolled, the Dwarf's Fell Greataxe will be TN 22 vs. a Weary Opponent.

The Beorning's Splitting Greataxe will be TN22 vs. an enemy with one less protection die.

So the great axes wielded by appropriate races still have better penetration.

[doctheweasel]

By the way, the same goes for Woodelves and spears. Their Spearman's Shield seems to be made for use with a great spear, but the Bitter Spear reward can only be used for a spear, not a great spear, and a simple spear can already be used in conjunction with a shield.

I'm glad there is a discrepancy here. I don't think all the gear should line up into a singular "build." For spear wielders you have one item, and great spear users there is another.

[Angelalex242]

For spear users there is one item, and for ANY two handed weapon user there is another.

The 'spearman's' shield could be used as easily by a longsword wielder (or even the really unlikely event of an elven greataxe wielder), as the actual crunch says 'used with a two handed weapon' not 'used with a great spear.'

The agile Elven warriors learnt long ago to profit from
the protection of a small shield when using a great spear.
These leaf-shaped bucklers are smaller than most.

//Apply the Parry bonus of this buckler even if you are
using a two-handed weapon in close combat.//

So my elf character who wields a longsword (It was a 1st age Gondolin blade like Orcrist and Glamdring) can make full use of spearman's shield.

Indeed, elves have nothing encouraging them to use a great spear specifically over any other 2 handed weapon...unless you take my idea and say 'well, if you want go to Dol Guldur and find an ash tree to cut down to make your own bitter great spear, that's your prerogative...'

[Eclipse]

By the way, the same goes for Woodelves and spears. Their Spearman's Shield seems to be made for use with a great spear, but the Bitter Spear reward can only be used for a spear, not a great spear, and a simple spear can already be used in conjunction with a shield.

I'm glad there is a discrepancy here. I don't think all the gear should line up into a singular "build." For spear wielders you have one item, and great spear users there is another.

I do not mind that, there is just a disconnect between fluff and rules - and in the wider area between the descriptions of Woodelves in the original works and fluff/rules. For example, Legolas is described as being tall and using a great bow.

[Corvo]

I do not mind that, there is just a disconnect between fluff and rules - and in the wider area between the descriptions of Woodelves in the original works and fluff/rules. For example, Legolas is described as being tall and using a great bow.

Many years since my last reading of tLotR, but I think Galadriel gave to Legolas a great bow once in Lorien.
Can anyone confirm/deny this?

[Corvo]

By the way, the same goes for Woodelves and spears. Their Spearman's Shield seems to be made for use with a great spear, but the Bitter Spear reward can only be used for a spear, not a great spear, and a simple spear can already be used in conjunction with a shield.

I'm glad there is a discrepancy here. I don't think all the gear should line up into a singular "build." For spear wielders you have one item, and great spear users there is another.

Well, even the Barding's cultural rewards don't fit together: Dalish Bow (ranged weapon), Spear of Bladorthin (bonus to ranged combat only), Tower Shield (bonus only to ranged combat, but not with Bow, and only for a round with the spear)...
They are not meant to "stack", but to give diverse options. And it wouldn't be very useful to stack them, since to have "just" 1 cultural reward + 3 qualities you need Valour 5 out of maximum 6

[Eclipse]

Well, even the Barding's cultural rewards don't fit together: Dalish Bow (ranged weapon), Spear of Bladorthin (bonus to ranged combat only), Tower Shield (bonus only to ranged combat, but not with Bow, and only for a round with the spear)...
They are not meant to "stack", but to give diverse options. And it wouldn't be very useful to stack them, since to have "just" 1 cultural reward + 3 qualities you need Valour 5 out of maximum 6

Some cultures have two Cultural Rewards that could be used at the same time, only Dwarves could theoretically wield/wear all three, I think. Again, that is not my problem - or better my pet peeve, as it is not really a problem. I especially like how cultures work, how things like skills and rewards mesh together. The only culture I am underwhelmed with is Woodelves. Maybe it is just a matter of perception. It is not a problem in play; the Woodelf in our company is perfectly fine and able to hold her own.

EDIT: I realize that this might sound too negative, so I would like to add: I really like the game, my players love it. The mechanics subtly promote an epic, "tolkinesque" style of play and generally capture the spirit of Middle-earth very well. My minor gripes are matters of taste, nothing more.