What would people in Wilderland know about legends of old?

[Dunkelbrink]

Great answers, thanks blujay and others! I Think Thranduil is the way to go then, he would know enough and would have been able to do some research on the matter to know about former werewolves etc. and give the players some answers. Sadly Irimë has already left for the Havens in my campaign.

The difference between history and legend is really interesting. The stories from the First age remind us of mythic tales from our own World in the way they are told. We know that the wolf Fenrir didn't bite Tyr's hand off in the accounts of Norse mythology - that's just a tale and a legend. But what do the inhabitants of Middle-earth know? They know for a fact that werewolves exist, so that's not an issue. But do they know that Carcharoth swallowed the hand of Beleg or is it part of a myth even for them? The Elves long lives make this intersting since they could actually have been there themselves. Do myths exist in the same way in middle-earth as on Earth, or are most legends suppressed on an early stage due to some elf saying "well, that's not true, I know since I was there at the time"? Would the link between legends and actual history be closer since the Elven scholars would be so much closer to actual facts?

[Terisonen]

the idea of Irimë being a guest in the Woodland Realm did surprise me. Perhaps those with more Tolkien lore than I possess could enlighten me regarding how much contact Thranduil and his people had with the other Elves? Legolas goes to Rivendell when Gollum escapes but it felt like a very uncommon thing to happen.

She is almost certainly a one-off. Contact with other Elves happened (Lorien mainly) but was probably rare.

As a general point, pre-literate communities are generally believed to have an accurate recall of history of up to 125 years (5 generations). Beyond that it becomes myth. The Bardings/Beornings almost certainly know little about the history of the first age. Thranduil and perhaps a few of his higher ranking kinsmen knows more as would Radagast and Gandalf. You could have wandering 'Scops' (Bards) who would know a few songs from the first age but they might not know much about the real events behind them. Maybe you could have your PCs meet a high ranking Gondorian or Dunedain of Arnor and they would know more. Of course the other "person" who knows what happened is Sauron....

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 091401.htm

Aboriginal 'memories' of Australia's coastline go back more than 7,000 years

It'a an apocalyptic change, but you can go back so far et 7000 year's...

[Otaku-sempai]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 091401.htm

Aboriginal 'memories' of Australia's coastline go back more than 7,000 years

It'a an apocalyptic change, but you can go back so far et 7000 year's...

At least 7000 years as that was when Australia's coast reached its present levels. Folks tend to underestimate the power of oral tradition when no formal, written tradition is present. This illustrates why myth often has a basis in fact.

[Finrod Felagund]

the idea of Irimë being a guest in the Woodland Realm did surprise me. Perhaps those with more Tolkien lore than I possess could enlighten me regarding how much contact Thranduil and his people had with the other Elves? Legolas goes to Rivendell when Gollum escapes but it felt like a very uncommon thing to happen.

She is almost certainly a one-off. Contact with other Elves happened (Lorien mainly) but was probably rare.

As a general point, pre-literate communities are generally believed to have an accurate recall of history of up to 125 years (5 generations)quote]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 091401.htm

Aboriginal 'memories' of Australia's coastline go back more than 7,000 years

It'a an apocalyptic change, but you can go back so far et 7000 year's...

Thank you Terisonen - fascinating and remarkable. In all fairness the article does make it clear that this is a one-off unmatched elsewhere. In the UK, an equivalent timespan would be knowing what happened in the late Mesolithic / early Neolithic period! I can't source the 125 years anywhere, but I know I've read it in history books evaluating the English Dark Ages. It's based on a 25 year old speaking to their 75 year old grandfather who had a piece of information when they were 25 years old from their 75 year old grandfather.

[Finrod Felagund]

This illustrates why myth often has a basis in fact.

I'm going to be slightly careful here, but what particular myths were you thinking of when you wrote that?

[Otaku-sempai]

This illustrates why myth often has a basis in fact.

I'm going to be slightly careful here, but what particular myths were you thinking of when you wrote that?

Nothing specific to the Aborigines, except for the confirmation that their oral history is confirmed by the geological record. I was thinking in more general terms such as England's King Arthur possibly having a real-world counterpart. the likelihood of the heroes of the Greek epics being based on real persons, etc. But another example would be the truth behind the legend of Leif Erikson versus the myth that Christoper Columbus led the first Europeans to discover the New World.

[Finrod Felagund]

This illustrates why myth often has a basis in fact.

I'm going to be slightly careful here, but what particular myths were you thinking of when you wrote that?

Nothing specific to the Aborigines, except for the confirmation that their oral history is confirmed by the geological record. I was thinking in more general terms such as England's King Arthur possibly having a real-world counterpart. the likelihood of the heroes of the Greek epics being based on real persons, etc. But another example would be the truth behind the legend of Leif Erikson versus the myth that Christoper Columbus led the first Europeans to discover the New World.

Personally I'm sceptical about the veracity of a lot of Oral Tradition including King Arthur and the Iliad - I was warned endlessly at Uni not to believe historical sources! Leif Erickson is slightly more complex in that the traditions were written down about 200 years or so after his death, but then you could argue that exceeds the 125 years limit I mentioned! Coming back to the original point, I still think that your average Beorning or Barding would know little if anything about the First Age.