Erebor Discussion

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Bear in mind that Erebor "reset" the timeline to 2946, so the settlement info we're getting is just five years after Smaug's death.

I thought that is what every sourcebook does. Don't they all start in 2946, while it is the actual adventure compilations that set things in later times?

[Finrod Felagund]

Anyone have any ideas on what is in The Netherwood?Robin S.

Looks like something terrible happened there. Maybe some kind of spirit(s) that drive(s) people insane? Looking at where it is, it's on the ancient Elven migration routes westward. Later on it's on the eastern borders of Rhovanion and Dale.

I think you could probably do a number of things there:
- Tower of Princes of Rhovanion which was destroyed in a last stand by the Nazgul. They now haunt the place
- Refugees from burning of Dale burnt alive in the Tower by Easterlings now haunt the place
- Elven Prince looking for lost love tortured by Easterlings now haunts it
- One of Morgoth's Dark Spirits from the first age left there to ambush elves. Maia of Mandos now manifests as a Ghoul. It eats people!
- Nature spirit bound by Nazgul curse and gone insane. How about a singer of Nessa who now howls madly (like a Banshee?)
- Or you could twist it round and say group of Easterling Merchants killed by bandits from Dale want their hidden treasure to be reunited with their families. Good opportunity to explore some Eastern cultures.
- Group of Dark Elves corrupted by evil spirits in first age seek to ambush unwary humans/elves

[zedturtle]

Bear in mind that Erebor "reset" the timeline to 2946, so the settlement info we're getting is just five years after Smaug's death.

I thought that is what every sourcebook does. Don't they all start in 2946, while it is the actual adventure compilations that set things in later times?

Rivendell gives a date of 2951-2977, but is easily reset to 2946. Horse-lords gives a date of 2960, with a few notes about earlier events.

[Otaku-sempai]

@Zed

I know that there's a reset to 2946. I'm just not buying a tenfold increase in population over three/four generations in a Dark Ages/Early Middle Ages styled society though. I could suspend disbelief and accept doubled perhaps, allowing for some further immigration from parts unknown. Where though?

First we have the survivors of Esgaroth and the Men of the surrounding countryside who joined Bard in restoring Dale instead of founding a new Lake-town. They start raising families as word spreads and more Men come to Dale from the Vales of the Anduin, the eaves of MIrkwood, perhaps even as far as Dorwinion, Rohan (Rohirrim discontented under King Fengel) and Gondor. After 2953 there might be a second wave of Rohirrim, followers of Fengel who are unhappy with the rule of his son.

[Terisonen]

Not really a tenfold increase, but numerous settlement too little to attract attention of Smaug in a hundred miles to gather and relocate swiftly in or near Dale.

And then there's Esgaroth men coming to Dale.

[zedturtle]

Not really a tenfold increase, but numerous settlement too little to attract attention of Smaug in a hundred miles to gather and relocate swiftly in or near Dale.

And then there's Esgaroth men coming to Dale.

Sorry Halbarad, I missed your first response. In any case, I do admit that tenfold might be ambitious but I do think a population explosion is fairly reasonable.

[Halbarad]

@Terisonen

Per the Laketown Sourcebook, it's safe to estimate that in 2946TA there are about 11-1200 Lakemen of Esgaroth. I also reckon that virtually all of those who had intended to up sticks and move to Dale would have gone by now. Any further immigration would only be a trickle IMO from Laketown.

Regarding the small settlements. How many of these small settlements can there possibly be? A hundred miles is probably no vast distance to a winged Dragon. I can't honestly envisage more than a handful of isolated settlements, at least a day's journey apart(2 hexes) and probably with small populations of no more than a few score of people. Anything more would surely have been noticeable to Smaug.

Of the people living under the eaves of Mirkwood, I'm not imagining thousands of these either. There might be more along the northern eaves than down the eastern flank but the only significant group might be Ceawin's people in the East Bight. Depending on the way the Darkening unfolds, it might be feasible that they could relocate to the Dale lands.

I think that the surviving folk of Dale are quite likely to have followed the Dwarves of Erebor into exile. Numbers of them would have gone west into the Anduin Vale as the Dwarves went to Dunland and the Blue Mountains. Many would have went to the Iron Hills with other Dwarf refugees. I don't really understand why Ironforge underwent such a drastic change in fortunes after Erebor fell. Surely the influx of refugees, man and dwarf, should have increased the importance of the Iron Hills as 'the' Dwarf Stronghold of Wilderland and boosted the fortunes of Ironforge as it's equivalent to Dale with the Redwater becoming the premier trade route between the north and Dorwinion.

[Glorelendil]

I don't really understand why Ironforge underwent such a drastic change in fortunes after Erebor fell.

Competition from Orgrimmar, no doubt.

[Halbarad]

Orgrimmar?

[Glorelendil]

Orgrimmar?

It was a joke.

What is Ironforge?