Escape Combat - is it a viable option for heroes?

[Tar-Palantir]

Dear fellow members of this forum,
I am not yet playing TOR but studying the rules and will be playing soon. My following question relates to the section "Escape Combat" on page 180 of the revised rulebook.

Do you think "Escape Combat" is a viable option for a group?
Did you ever experience a group of heroes that successfully disengaged combat together?

From a mathematical standpoint I see no reason for this option, it will usually get your group killed. It seems to be plain better to fight on in any circumstances.

I understand this can be an option for a single character with a good athletics ranking, but even then it is questionable (usually you are already in a bad condition if you decide to flee, probably weary).
But a group that decides as a whole: woohoo, these opponents are too strong for us, can only surrender or fight on.

How do I come to this conclusion?
Scenario: The group consists of four heroes and let us be very optimistic, all have two ranks in athletics. The opponents should be reasonably strong (or there would be no incitement for escaping combat in the first place), for example four orc guards (it only gets worse when there are more opponents) with an ability rating of 4.
One hero escapes automatically (assuming rearward stance). Now the other three give up their attack for the chance to flee. How high is the chance of all three succeding? I don't know exactly, but it is very, very low for sure (remember one of the heroes could have to fight two opponents and then needed a great success).

So let's assume one hero succeeds, while the other two do not. Now, as all three are brothers in arms, the one who made it, does not flee, because he would then make the situation even worse for his comrades. Question: The comrades failed at escaping so they may not attack in the following round, but are they allowed to try to escape combat again? Must the successful hero escape again or can he delay his success?

I think there should be an option more viable, e.g. one hero being a sort of "captain" (compare the roles for travelling) to use his battle skill for a coordinated withdrawal at the beginning of the round. His companions then declare if they follow him (lose all other options for this round) or press on. Or something similar, of course it should be hard to achieve, but not nigh impossible. (Alternative: Don't lose action in the next round)

I hope I don't come across as rude, this being my first post and all. I like the game and its mechanics very much (alas only in theory as of now), I just wondered about "escape combat" and maybe some other minor things.

I am curious to read your answers and your views/opinions on the matter. Thanks in Advance.

[zedturtle]

I've never had a complete group Escape Combat, no. I usually have seen it for tactical reasons... a badly hurt hero wants to avoid going down, or there's a story reason for a particular hero to try and get away from the bad guys. I really think that's the function of the option in the game.

I do like the idea of a fighting retreat, and probably would wing that if it came up.

[Dedicemancometh]

I have had that happen. But it became a chase (fellowship prolonged action). I co-opted some Pathfinder Chase cards for the purpose. Six rounds of checks, IIRC, with two of the checks whose downside was some variant of "you're cornered in a tight spot; you're back in combat, but now you have several complications which are..."

P.S. The Fellowship made it past the gantlet.

[Deadmanwalking]

Escape Combat is tricky and usually a bad idea. It can be workable vs. small numbers of foes with Great Size, though, and I've been part of a whole group who successfully escaped from such foes with it. Once.

We also used it to escape from a truly unreasonable number of wights one time, but that was story-based as much as anything.

[bluejay]

I don't think there's a problem with Escape Combat per se however one of the big problems is that typically players don't want to flee combat until it's too late.

There definitely are options to help compensate for low Athletics checks with Combat Advantage dice and Hope spends but as I say typically players don't consider fleeing until it's late in the combat and they've exhausted most of this.

[Scrollreader]

My PCs have successfully escaped combat before as a party. (The Spiders in don't leave the path). PCs with athletics held the line, so those without could use Rearward stance. They then used hope and preliminary dice to make sure everyone got out. They worked as a fellowship, and it seemed to work just fine.

[Tar-Palantir]

Thanks for all your answers so far. Seems I followed the wrong tracks.

[Otaku-sempai]

I think that the Thing in the Well was intended to be over-powered for beginning Heroes as an instance when Escape Combat was both desirable and appropriate.

[Scrollreader]

To expand on my answer: I had 5 PCs present. (And they had Baldor). Round 1 (of the escape attempt, like round 3 or 4 of the encounter) Baldor and the Woodsman Archer auto- escaped. (The archer had a hound). Close combat PCs, having initiative, went to aggressive combat stances and killed a couple of Spiders. Round 2 of the escape (as four more spider arrived), one PC auto-escaped from Rearward, and the other 3 used preliminary dice and in one case, hope to make sure they got away.

The key is, IMO: Making the decision before people are weary, wounded, and super low on endurance; putting people with poor chance at athletics in Rearward, and keeping the rest in defensive, so even if they fail, they won't get murdered by the concentration of bad guy fire.

[skywalker]

I often have seen the PCs withdraw from combat in the Marsh Bell. Given that there are seemingly limitless Marsh Dwellers and no real benefit for the PCs to winning the combat, combined with the environment being ideal for a withdraw, the PCs generally adopt this strategy early and can do so successfully.

The existing mechanics make the withdraw exciting and tense, but not too difficult, if they plan accordingly. And I always thought it reminiscent of the fleeing from the goblins in Goblintown (and from the Balrog in Moria)