Confused about the Elf Path

[Glorelendil]

From the Forest Gate, departing in summer, I get 22 days to the cell with the word "King" in it on the east side when going via Elf Path, and 25 days when taking Grey Mountain Narrows.

That's without horses, of course.

Your count for the Grey Mountains Narrows route agrees with mine allowing for slight differences in measurement. But I'm not sure how you get only 22 days along the Elf-Path. It's 19 hexes (following the route shown in the adventure, but the official Loremaster's map matches it well). If it's severe terrain as the rules suggest that should take 28.5 days (which I rounded up to 29). If you make it medium terrain as I suggested it takes 14.25 days (which I rounded to 14).

Season doesn't make any difference to journey time, does it? As far as I can see it only affects fatigue.

Anyway, even 22 days vs 25 wouldn't seem to make it worth braving the dangers of Mirkwood; Baldor's a merchant, not a half-crazed adventurer!

Reason: incorrect terrain entry for that region in my latest Journeyometer. Thanks for helping me find a bug!

[jamesrbrown]

Yes, in the Hobbit it says they go round the northern edge of the forest because "now that the goblins were crushed, it seemed safer to them than the dreadful pathways under the trees."

Bilbo was quite safe with Gandalf and Beorn at his side. However, it does say, "seemed safer to them..." A few paragraphs later, Tolkien describes Bilbo's journey to Beorn's house via the northern route this way: "He had many hardships and adventures before he got back. The Wild was still the Wild, and there were many other things in it in those days beside goblins; but he was well guided and well guarded[.]"

Personally, I think the Elf-path should be a quicker route than the Grey Mountains Narrows, but more "dreadful" (greater risk of Shadow gain and more things to fear) and more risky (hazards more likely to include Orientation tests to stay on the path; Dangerous meetings are highly likely off the path; good food is harder to find, etc.).

Why take the Elf-path? There could be many reasons beyond distance through Mirkwood. One of the biggest being that the forest provides concealment and protection from adversaries trying to track and follow the company.

The Grey Mountains Narrows should be a longer route with hazards mostly related to weather and terrain with an occasional wild beast. Tolkien described it as a "long and cheerless road."

[Indur Dawndeath]

I think you must consider the Viglunding presence as a key factor for Baldor, when he chose to take the Forest Path. He is on friendly terms with the Woodelves. Why would he risc being taken captive by the Cruel Lord of the Viglundings. All his trading goods confiscated and perhaps slavery...
The Forest Path may take longer, but you bypass a lot of other dangers. Dragons, orcs and evil men.

Cheers

[Falenthal]

As far as I know, in TOR there's no mechanical benefit (time saving, lower TNs for Fatigue tests, less Hazards,...) for taking the Elf-path than for going along the Grey Mountain Narrows. Specially after the Battle of Five Armies.

So, why does Baldor take this route is an unexplained mystery in the adventure.

That said, you could come up with your own ideas, or take some of what is said here, to give a reason for it:
modify the terrain difficulty to a lower level as Earendil said, or rule that the nastier Hazards (Dangerous Meetings) do not happen when along the Elf-path (Terisonen and JamesRBrown's ideas).
Or something else like Baldor having some special interest in going through the Path instead of around Mirkwood (Indur's suggestion regarding the Viglunds, or something else).

But I agree that, after the B5A, the Grey Mountain Narrows should be the "official" route to connect Esgaroth/Dale/Erebor with the Anduin Vales: the Elf-path should only be taken when in great need of concealment, or if suspicious of the presence of dragons, snow trolls, armies of goblins and such in the Grey Mountains.

As a personal note, I have the impression that the Elf-path doesn't allow to travel faster through Mirkwood than if not following the Path, but that it allows the travellers not to get lost and to avoid dangers (giant spiders). There's no easy house-rule I can think about to represent this, and I don't know where exactly I got these ideas (and if they're canon or just a personal impression), but that's how I'd play it.

[Majestic]

My players have taken the Elf Path so many times (since that first journey with Baldor) that it's just their routine way to get across Mirkwood. It doesn't hurt that two of the regulars are Mirkwood Elves, and they often report back to (and stop at) the Woodland Realm.

Tales from Wilderland does say that "While walking on the path eases the toil of the journey somewhat (the forest doesn't darken their hearts as grievously as if they were leaving the trail", that the Corruption tests are lessened (as mentioned earlier, only TN 12), and that it takes 24 days to cross the whole forest this way.

[Corvo]

(...)
My solution was to say the Elf-path is an exception to the bit where it says "any road or path through Mirkwood" is considered severe terrain, and instead consider it as medium. That shortens the journey by the Elf-Path to 14 days instead of 29, so the whole journey takes 19 days (instead of 27 by the Grey Mountains Narrows). That might make it worth going through Mirkwood!

I adopted a similar solution: while Mirkwood is Severe terrain (modifier x3), I made the Elf-path Hard terrain (modifier x2).

*To make the northern path a less obvious choice, I made up that the Grey Mountain Narrows is a dismal place where horses have an hard time finding pasture, so you lose their speed bonus (you have to take long detours to the few places where there is good grazing, etc).

*Edit: btw, I made this last ruling years ago. Now that we got Rohan, we know that horses lend no bonus to travel speed on Hard terrain like the Grey Mountain Narrows (unless you got a Sure Footed horse, ofc )

[KathD]

(...)
My solution was to say the Elf-path is an exception to the bit where it says "any road or path through Mirkwood" is considered severe terrain, and instead consider it as medium. That shortens the journey by the Elf-Path to 14 days instead of 29, so the whole journey takes 19 days (instead of 27 by the Grey Mountains Narrows). That might make it worth going through Mirkwood!

I adopted a similar solution: while Mirkwood is Severe terrain (modifier x3), I made the Elf-path Hard terrain (modifier x2).

*To make the northern path a less obvious choice, I made up that the Grey Mountain Narrows is a dismal place where horses have an hard time finding pasture, so you lose their speed bonus (you have to take long detours to the few places where there is good grazing, etc).

*Edit: btw, I made this last ruling years ago. Now that we got Rohan, we know that horses lend no bonus to travel speed on Hard terrain like the Grey Mountain Narrows (unless you got a Sure Footed horse, ofc )

Oooh, I like the (house?)rule on horses and hard terrain, along with the repeated suggestion that the Elf path counts as one step better terrain.

My next session is starting in September in-game, and so I'm also going to add that Belgar thinks going via the forest will shelter them from the autumn storms and on-set of winter, which will be more severe on the open terrain of the narrows. The trees will help to break the wind, and the magic of the path will prevent it being washed away by autumn storms or affected by early snow.

[Earendil]

(...)
My solution was to say the Elf-path is an exception to the bit where it says "any road or path through Mirkwood" is considered severe terrain, and instead consider it as medium. That shortens the journey by the Elf-Path to 14 days instead of 29, so the whole journey takes 19 days (instead of 27 by the Grey Mountains Narrows). That might make it worth going through Mirkwood!

I adopted a similar solution: while Mirkwood is Severe terrain (modifier x3), I made the Elf-path Hard terrain (modifier x2).

Yes, I considered that too. Using my calculations above, it reduces the journey along the Elf-Path to 19 days instead of 29, but that still means the whole journey takes 24 days instead of 27. I just didn't think 3 days gained was enough to explain why Baldor (again, a merchant not an adventurer) is willing to travel through Mirkwood, which (as the adventure says) he is aware is dangerous. Saving 8 days by making it Medium terrain seems much more worthwhile.

*To make the northern path a less obvious choice, I made up that the Grey Mountain Narrows is a dismal place where horses have an hard time finding pasture, so you lose their speed bonus (you have to take long detours to the few places where there is good grazing, etc).

*Edit: btw, I made this last ruling years ago. Now that we got Rohan, we know that horses lend no bonus to travel speed on Hard terrain like the Grey Mountain Narrows (unless you got a Sure Footed horse, ofc )

I do like that idea. And it's nice that the official rules actually backed you up!

When I ran the adventure, the question of riding never came up: some of the heroes had nothing in Athletics; and IIRC Dwarves don't like riding; and hobbits need riding ponies rather than horses, which might not be commonly available in Lake-Town! Besides, riding horses are expensive, especially if you need them at short notice.

[Glorelendil]

Here's a vote for lowering terrain difficulty by one step. It just makes sense. I'd do the same for the Old Forest Road, but without the reduction in Corruption TNs because there's no elf-magic protecting it.

[jamesrbrown]

I realize that in the adventure "Don't Leave the Path" from Tales from Wilderland, it is suggested that travelling on the Elf-path lowers Corruption tests by one level (p. 12) stating "As long as they [the companions] are on the path, the TN is 12; tests made off the path are TN 14." However, after considering Tolkien's description of the path through Mirkwood as "dreadful," how would you support that with game mechanics? If the terrain difficulty is decreased by a level to allow for less Fatigue tests, then there will be less of a chance that a hazard will be rolled. Therefore, whatever appropriate hazards depicting the dread of Mirkwood are also less likely to occur than otherwise; so I don't feel hazards alone are the answer. The Heart of the Wild gives great descriptions of Mirkwood and the types of things the characters are likely to experience during their journey. These include ideas for bouts of madness. It also states that heroes who get lost off the path will almost never find their way back and perish in the forest. That's pretty dreadful...and risky for a player-hero!

One idea to consider that will create the sense of dread for the companions is to force them to make a number of Fear tests; perhaps equal to the number of Fatigue tests. If they fail at any one, they cannot spend Hope for the remainder of the trip.

What else could be done?