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Glorelendil wrote:Why would these Ologs, given that they are creations of Sauron, appear in southern Mirkwood after he had abandoned Dol Guldur?

Erland Hakon wrote:

Rich H wrote:Not at all, feel free to share.

Well, one last message for now.

In my campaign giants are not oversized men, they are more similar to the one appearing in the game War in the North.

Lesser Maiars, more closely related to the land that took a form similar to rock. They are usually very reclusive (maybe timid?), something like Tom Bombadil in that sense, and they have decided to retreat into the depths of the Misty Mountains.

In an alignment D&D style they would be chaotic neutral, in the beginning of the world they were not in the side of the Valar neither in the Morgoth side.

Rich H wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:Why would these Ologs, given that they are creations of Sauron, appear in southern Mirkwood after he had abandoned Dol Guldur?

Because it was garrisoned again in the slow build-up to the War of the Ring? I mean, the appendices do say they appeared in Southern Mirkwood at the end of the Third Age so it would seem logical.

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:I read the books long before the movies ever existed and my interpretation of Tolkien's writing is that, yes, Saruman did create his own troops. The Man-Orc, capable of going out in full daylight without any of the pesky drawbacks that regular orcs/goblins had when out in the sun.

Erland Hakon wrote:

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:I read the books long before the movies ever existed and my interpretation of Tolkien's writing is that, yes, Saruman did create his own troops. The Man-Orc, capable of going out in full daylight without any of the pesky drawbacks that regular orcs/goblins had when out in the sun.

The Man-Orc you are talking about are they Uruk-Hai, Half-Orcs or Goblin-Men? I ask it to know if we are talking about the same kinds of creatures, because if they are Half-Orcs and/or Goblin-Men what you're saying is absolutely true.

About Uruk-Hai thing is less clear, because if Saruma copied how to create them from Sauron (for me a clear example of plagiarism and industrial espionaje ) then IMO we can not say that he created the race, just that learned the know-how.

"We are the fighting Uruk-hai! We slew the great warrior. We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, The White Hand: The Hand that gives us man's-flesh to eat. We came out of Isengard, and led you here, and we shall lead you back by the way we choose."
- The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Chapter 3, "The Uruk-hai".

Rich H wrote:"We are the fighting Uruk-hai! We slew the great warrior. We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, The White Hand: The Hand that gives us man's-flesh to eat. We came out of Isengard, and led you here, and we shall lead you back by the way we choose."
- The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Chapter 3, "The Uruk-hai".

Erland Hakon wrote:In this text, I see no evidence of the creation of the Uruk-Hai by Saruman, all they say is that they are servants of Saruman.

Morgoth created trolls, there are Trolls serving Sauron, that means that Sauron created his Troll following a new process of creating or he put to his service Trolls already created with the process of Morgoth? The same with the Uruk-hai of Saruman.

Erland Hakon wrote:On the other hand, no one doubts that Saruman crossed orcs with humans, but since the time of ICE they have been considered Half-Orcs not Uruks-Hai.

MERP descriptions:
Uruk-Hai: Following Sauron's resurrection in T.A. 1000, he began breeding a new race of Orcs, one capable of independent and intelligent action. After centuries of work, he produced the first Greater Ores, and he called them the Uruk-Hai (BS "Orc-race") because they were more suited to the formation of societies. Initially, the Uruk-Hai remained close to Sauron and served as lieutenants and elite guards, but gradually their numbers grew and their strain strengthened. Their existent remained guarded until Sauron was willing to show his hand. Nonetheless, in T.A. 2475 they were unleashed in full scale battled formations. They are the Dark Lord's finest goblin troops. (MERP Collector’s Edition, page 176)
Half-Orcs: Half-orcs are a hideous creation, born of Man and Orc. They are often confused with Uruk-Hai, but are a distinct race, small in number but capable and deadly. Their origin is also unclear, although it appears that they were first used by the tainted Wizard Saruman. He still employs them as agents, spies, lieutenants, and special guards. They are particularly effective in Eriador, for Saruman's Half-orcs have Dunlending blood in them and some are capable of blending into Dunnish societies. (MERP 2nd Edition Collector’s Edition, page 177)

Decipher’s LotR descriptions:
Uruk-Hai: Creaced by Sauron in the Third Age the Uruk-Hai, or Uruks, are larger, fiercer, stronger Orcs. They have rough, black skin and faces, and slanted eyes. They first appeared about TA 2475, when with others of Sauron's forces, they overran lthilien and took the city of Osgiliath. Nearly as tall as men, they stand straight-limbed and strong and do not shrink from the light of the Sun. They make fearsome soldiers, either in units of their own or when given command of squads of Orcs, whom they mock for their weaknesses and cowardice. (LotR Core Rulebook, page 292)
Half-Orcs: Saruman -and perhaps Sauron as well- found a way to breed Orcs with Men, creating a mongrel race of Men with some Orc features and with Orc wickedness in their hearts. They have sallow faces and sly, slanting eyes, but their height and build is more like Men. Some half-orcs look more like Orcs than others. (LotR Core Rulebook, page 292)

Erland Hakon wrote:In all three official RPGs bases in Middle-Earth Uruk-Hai and Half-Orcs have been considered different creatures. And in they all have similar descriptions.