Evil races in Middle Earth

[poosticks7]

Grishnákh was a Black Uruk of Mordor.

[Otaku-sempai]

Are we sure than Uglúk and Grishnákh are both of them Uruk-Hai?
Because I always thought Grishnákh was an orc and Uglúk an uruk-hai.

Well, uruk is just the word for orc in the Black Speech, so it needn't refer only to the Uruk-hai.

[Erland Hakon]

Grishnákh was a Black Uruk of Mordor.

Well, uruk is just the word for orc in the Black Speech, so it needn't refer only to the Uruk-hai.

That's just my confusion, if Grishnákh is a common uruk (orc) or an Uruk-Hai.

[Otaku-sempai]

My understanding is that Sauron bred the Uruk-hai, but both he and Saruman made use of them. Saruman is only responsible for developing the Half-orcs (a.k.a. goblin-men).

[Cawdorthane]

The description of Grishnákh is as

"a short crook-legged creature, very broad and with long arms that hung almost to the ground"

Otherwise Uruk-hai is actually a Black Speech word simply meaning "Orc-folk". But Tolkien certainly seems to have used it as a term for the larger warrior type Orcs such as those led by Uglúk. Appendix F in LotR has this passage:

"Orcs and the Black Speech. Orc is the form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan. In Sindarin it was orch. Related, no doubt, was the word uruk of the Black Speech, though this was applied as a rule only to the great soldier-Orcs that at this time issued from Mordor and Isengard. The lesser kinds were called, especially by the Uruk-hai, snaga 'slave'."

So I doubt that Grishnákh was an Uruk-hai, but it is possible.

cheers
Mark

[Erland Hakon]

So I doubt that Grishnákh was an Uruk-hai, but it is possible.

That is also my opinión.

[Majestic]

The Marsh-ogre does look a bit Trollish. Perhaps Sauron (or even Melkor) at one time experimented with crossing Giants with Trolls and the Ogre was the result; not intelligent or disciplined enough to act a servants for the dark powers, they were released into the wild to sink or swim, so-to-speak, and plague the Free Peoples of the North.

Peter Jackson's team viewed Ogres as a hybrid between Orcs and Trolls.

Where do you get that about PJ's team? I worked on Decipher's CCG (which had very strict approvals process) during it's entire run, and I don't remember there being any Ogres.

Incidentally, Decipher classified Grishnakh as an Orc, rather than an Uruk, FWIW (based on the movies, which isn't necessarily canon when we're talking about the books).

http://picclick.ca/LOTR-TCG-ROS-Rise-of ... 52344.html

[Otaku-sempai]

Where do you get that about PJ's team? I worked on Decipher's CCG (which had very strict approvals process) during it's entire run, and I don't remember there being any Ogres.

That comes from Weta's Hobbit Chronicles books, specifically the two covering The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies. To be fair, the Art & Design book only places Ogres as a class of creatures somewhere between Orcs and Trolls. Neither does the Art of War volume specifically call them a hybrid of Orc and Troll, so you can take my assertion with at least a grain or two of salt.

[Glorelendil]

I think if I were going to add "Ogres" to the game, I'd try to find a new design space.

How about: larger than orcs, smaller than trolls, and even more primitive (even animalistic), such that they rarely (or never) use weapons, and have some kind of unusual behavior in combat. Always try to eat the smallest opponent? Hit whoever hit them last? Tons of Endurance, and Great Size but normal(ish) Protection.

[bluejay]

Is there a problem with the existing Marsh Ogre stats in the Laketown supplement? It just seems strange to me that people are discussing adding them to the game when they already appear in an official supplement.

Genuine question here, there may be something I'm missing.