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In my game, though Elves used to be in the minority, they are now the only regular PCs (four of them!). Sometimes the older, High Elves (more in the 500 year old range) speak to the "younger" Mirkwood Elves as if they were children (being just over 100).

One of the Mirkwood Elves has begun to go down the path of Shadow, adding Scornful and Haughty to his character traits, to add to the difficulty of playing an Elf.

I partially agree with Morris' concerns, but think the solution of banning them outright is an overreaction. The issue really comes down to roleplaying: it's possible to roleplay an elf in a way that avoids these issues, but it requires a lot of self-control and constant vigilance. Lesser races are simply more forgiving of sloppy roleplaying.

Glorelendil wrote:I partially agree with Morris' concerns, but think the solution of banning them outright is an overreaction. The issue really comes down to roleplaying: it's possible to roleplay an elf in a way that avoids these issues, but it requires a lot of self-control and constant vigilance. Lesser races are simply more forgiving of sloppy roleplaying.

Hmmm . . . just wrote a long draft that didn't really say anything at all. As usual, you've some to the point in about a tenth of the words I would need.

Rich H wrote:.

Elmoth wrote:For elf players, the limits of time and looooooong time considerations are what makes them ethereal. At least for me. They just perceive the passage of time differently. A 100 year old oak might be a fast growing sapling to an elf.

This is how one of my players handled it, like I said above: being somewhat aloof and distant and appearing to be slow to act but once set to a task he was driven and utterly unstoppable. I liked that approach as it was a nice way of explaining their immortal perception and how he approached interacting with others. It does take a specific mindset though and I was wondering if other players employed different approaches?

Great approach. We played a short campaign (6 seasons) where the 4 players (I wa sone of them) were playing elves. The campaign spawned 200 years or real ME time. It was a cool approach to reflect on our perception of time. We do not tend to have elves in our regular ME games though, since our group is more of the ranger slayer type so my experience with elves in "normal" ME games (TOR or otherwise) is limited.

Personally I would ban Elves (and Dwarves, Halflings, Numenoreans et al) as PC's for the simple reason stated - using them as PCs them ruins the mystery and awe. I've thought about creating a 2nd age game where all players are basically proto-Dunlendings who wander the world and find lots of wonderful and horrific people and places. The issue however, is that players want to be Elves, Dwarves, Halflings etc so no one would play my game!

I don't see any way around this one, except to introduce new levels of mystery such as Maiar, creatures of Morgoth in tunnels far under the ground etc.

Finrod Felagund wrote:Personally I would ban Elves (and Dwarves, Halflings, Numenoreans et al) as PC's for the simple reason stated - using them as PCs them ruins the mystery and awe. I've thought about creating a 2nd age game where all players are basically proto-Dunlendings who wander the world and find lots of wonderful and horrific people and places. The issue however, is that players want to be Elves, Dwarves, Halflings etc so no one would play my game!

What would even be the point of having a Middle-earth rpg where the only racial option for PCs is to be human--and then not even able to be one of the Dúnedain? One might as well stick to the Hyborian Age of Conan, except that, under this philosophy, a Cimmerian barbarian would probably not be mundane enough!

I can see restricting Cultures based on a specific type of game (say, a game set in Rohan where everyone is a Rider of Rohan) but outright banning everything but human in a normal-setting game? That... just seems weird, and feels counter to a lot of what Tolkien is representing, in my opinion.

With all the excitement of the AC coming out this sorta dropped off my radar and I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that has posted so far and particularly Claire C's and Wbweather's posts which were great to read and have given me quite a few ideas.

Interesting discussion.

One other thing to consider, (though it has been touched upon), typical elves would be distant and perhaps hesitant of forming close bonds with mortals. Even a young elf starting adventurer would likely have alreadylived through at least four generations of man.

So the comparison of the bond between a man and a dog could be applied loosely to a man and an elf. The elf knows that he will outlive his friend, he can be found of him, even love him but will know that death will take his friend.

In the same vein, there is another consideration that makes me hesitant about Elves as PCs: I feel that death is something that gives relevance to our choices.

Death is the gift of Eru to the Men. By this gift they are bound to take a stand between the Shadow and what is worth in the world. Between love, glory, fame, power and... irrilevance. Men cannot escape their destiny forever, and they know that they have to make something of their life.

But if you could escape death forever, what could persuade you to risk your life? Why not dance, sing and carouse in the woods foreverer? Why not becoming one of the Wayward elves?
Every Hero need a motivation, but I think for an Elf that motivation is doubly important.