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By the end he had become one. He had plenty of experience stealing food in the halls of the Elvenking and the raft-elves and breaking prisoners out of their cells. He kept the Arkenstone a secret, snuck out of the Lonely Mountain to give it to Bard, then snuck back in. Yes, he had the Ring, but burglary had become his default mode of adventuring. But treasure-hunting was never an interest of his.

Stormcrow wrote:By the end he had become one. He had plenty of experience stealing food in the halls of the Elvenking and the raft-elves and breaking prisoners out of their cells. He kept the Arkenstone a secret, snuck out of the Lonely Mountain to give it to Bard, then snuck back in. Yes, he had the Ring, but burglary had become his default mode of adventuring. But treasure-hunting was never an interest of his.

Interesting. It was a song about taking back gold that got him fired up for adventure.

Sure, but that was the dwarves' desire, not his. He simply recognized them as part of the trappings of Adventure. He wants see mountains, to hear pine-trees and waterfalls, and to explore caves, three of which were also in the song. These are what is emphasized once the "something Tookish" woke in him; not the dwarves' treasure. He loves maps and taking long walks. Thorin humming that song in the next room gave him uncomfortable dreams. He values food and cheer and song above hoarded gold. He is perfectly happy to sacrifice his entire share to make peace. And of course his own song when he sees his home again is all about going places and seeing things, with not a precious item in sight.

Stormcrow wrote:Sure, but that was the dwarves' desire, not his. He simply recognized them as part of the trappings of Adventure. He wants see mountains, to hear pine-trees and waterfalls, and to explore caves, three of which were also in the song. These are what is emphasized once the "something Tookish" woke in him; not the dwarves' treasure. He loves maps and taking long walks. Thorin humming that song in the next room gave him uncomfortable dreams. He values food and cheer and song above hoarded gold. He is perfectly happy to sacrifice his entire share to make peace. And of course his own song when he sees his home again is all about going places and seeing things, with not a precious item in sight.

Yeah, I mostly agree with you. I also don't think a game derived from a story, rather than vice-versa, is ever going to perfectly map the fiction. And definitely not without sacrificing playability.

And I further think that acknowledging the contributions of others to a discussion, even if doing so with 'gracious disingenuousness', (rather than...speaking hypothetically here...believing that one's role is to edify everybody else on the internet) is in general a good idea.

My wife likes to point out* that the word 'but', when used to make a counterpoint, can almost always be replaced with 'and', to positive and diplomatic effect. Even when those particular words are absent, the general principle applies.

(C.f. discussion about hobbit parry scores.)

*The fact that she has pointed this out on more than one occasion does, I admit, illuminate my own personal failings in this department.

Glorelendil wrote:I also don't think a game derived from a story, rather than vice-versa, is ever going to perfectly map the fiction. And definitely not without sacrificing playability.

The point I made is not that there is not an exact match. The point is that the built-in motivations of the game are exactly what Tolkien goes to pains to say are NOT what motivates the heroes of the great tales AND this is reflected in his stories. The additions in the AC move even further away from this toward adventure as a thing good in itself and common in the setting.

The rest I will not address as it does not come from a moderator exercising his or her authority.

Stormcrow wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:I also don't think a game derived from a story, rather than vice-versa, is ever going to perfectly map the fiction. And definitely not without sacrificing playability.

The point I made is not that there is not an exact match. The point is that the built-in motivations of the game are exactly what Tolkien goes to pains to say are NOT what motivates the heroes of the great tales AND this is reflected in his stories. The additions in the AC move even further away from this toward adventure as a thing good in itself and common in the setting.

Yes, I understand. And the point I'm making is that a game that simulates the motivations of the heroes in the great tales of Tolkien would not lend itself to forming parties and having repeated adventures year after year. Sure, you could make such an RPG, but it would appeal to an even smaller niche than TOR. It'd probably win a bunch of awards when it came out, and then fade away.

At least, that's my opinion. I'd love to be proven wrong.

The rest I will not address as it does not come from a moderator exercising his or her authority.

Admittedly, my hopes were low.

Glorelendil wrote:Sure, you could make such an RPG, but it would appeal to an even smaller niche than TOR. It'd probably win a bunch of awards when it came out, and then fade away.

At least, that's my opinion. I'd love to be proven wrong.

This. I'm not gonna circle back and repeat similar comments I made earlier on in the discussion, but just to say that you're not alone.

I do think it bears repeating that C7 are doing a wonderful job at managing all of the vested interests involved, and in realizing one of the most faithful imaginings of middle earth I've come across.

I started the separate promised thread about Callings and adventure hooks here (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7576), as I do think some of Stormcrow's concerns will be of interest---to some. With the existing rulesets, I wonder if it would only take coming up with a little inspiration to meet the needs of LMs striving to emulate the kind of adventure found in the books.

Hmmm, looks like the following bit of news was missed off the forums, I've checked where I can...

From Cubicle 7's Facebook feed -

Cubicle 7 Entertainment
7 February at 12:35 ·
..

Look what we have "in hand"! Pre-order customers in the UK and Europe should start to get into forward stance and watch their letter boxes in the next couple of weeks. In the US? Watch the seas! It is en route!

Not ordered your copy yet? Get down to your local game store and order one, and if they participate in Bits and Mortar you'll get the PDF free. Or alternatively order from our web store and also get the PDF free!
http://shop.cubicle7store.com/The-One-R ... panion-PDF

Facebook post

Book received today!

Good to know!