Are the new Cultures balanced?

[amajo]

Yeah it does raise the chance of rolling a Gandalf but by a trivial amount ...

It raises it from 1 in 12 up to a whopping 13 in 144.

Basically the only extra chance you get is if you first roll an eye (1/12) and then roll a Gandalf on the second roll (1/12). so it adds an extra 1 in 144 chance of rolling a Gandalf.

The 1/144 chance is considering all rolls. The point is that when you roll an Eye, the worst possible result, now you have a 1/12 chance of having an automatic success instead. Or a 11/12 chance of it NOT being an Eye.
So I'd personally prefer to reroll an Eye than to add a +1 because of all the aforementioned possibilities (and any additional possible effect that the LM or the campaign might trigger by rolling an Eye).

[Glorelendil]

The chance of rolling a Gandalf on the re-roll is already factored into my 2-3% number.

I'd take the re-roll over the +1 because it's more interesting, but the rational choice would be +1.

[bluejay]

The 1/144 chance is considering all rolls. The point is that when you roll an Eye, the worst possible result, now you have a 1/12 chance of having an automatic success instead. Or a 11/12 chance of it NOT being an Eye.
So I'd personally prefer to reroll an Eye than to add a +1 because of all the aforementioned possibilities (and any additional possible effect that the LM or the campaign might trigger by rolling an Eye).

Yes I didn't disagree with the other aspects of your post. Reducing the chance of rolling an eye is the best thing (although some might argue that against adversaries with a low number of dice in their attack it's actually in a hero's favour to have the adversary try a called shot).

The point is that the improvement it gives to rolling an automatic success (or even an edge) is very, very small.

[Dunkelbrink]

Really interesting to read your thoughts. I seem to be the only one with the notion of Breelanders and Men of Minas Tirith being unbalanced, and I'll give them both a second thought before changing anything. But I'll try to have another go of explaining my thoughts.

The extra attribute Point for Men of Minas Tirith (MMT) is "worth" a little more than a Virtue/Reward if we compare it the the Lesser ring from Rivendell (which raises an attribute by one with the cost of one permanent Shadow). It is also significally better than a Mastery.

So, MMT are at least one Virtue "up" from start, which more than well compensates them for the raised xp cost (the Rangers and High Elves both have higher xp cost AND other significant drawbacks). They have standard starting End and Hope (22 and 8). I still think their Blessing is excellent, which Amado already has argued for above (avoiding hazards, Eye of Mordor etc).

But the thorn in my side is probably still Guard of the Tower. A MMT with a Great spear will do 17 damage(!) on a normal hit in Forward stance. That's four times as good as having a Grevious great spear. Then add to this an ability that compares to the Bardings Swordmaster, with a Parry bonus of 3 if fighting with a great shield (no Great spear then, but a Longsword will do as well). If you become weary, just change to Open stance. And, just because it wasn't good enough, add +1 Standing. Yes, a MMT is about combat but I'd say that Guard of the Tower alone compares to the "worth" of about 4 Virtues in one.

I like the Men of Bree and agree that thay have some nice Virtues (Out of memory and old tales and Friendly and inquisitive come to mind but others are not impressive; compare the terms of the parry bonus from Desperate courage with Guard of the Tower above for example). But with only 13 Attribute Points they are really "behind" from the start and should be compensated somehow. Dunlendings have some amazing blessing, rewards and virtues, Breelanders do not. And they start with low Endurance AND the lowest Hope value possible. That doesn't make sense to me; they should at least have a nice portion of Hope to use with their abilities.

Well, no need to dwell on this and I don't disagree with your posts, just not really convinced of how these +/- attribute new Cultures fit in with the design choices of others.

[Glorelendil]

The extra attribute Point for Men of Minas Tirith (MMT) is "worth" a little more than a Virtue/Reward if we compare it the the Lesser ring from Rivendell (which raises an attribute by one with the cost of one permanent Shadow). It is also significally better than a Mastery.

More accurately, it is better than that particular virtue and that particular mastery. The virtues/masteries/rewards/qualities are not themselves balanced, so we can't use any one of them to say "this is the value of a Virtue in units of Attribute points". At most we can say "Culture A's virtue #3 is a better deal than Culture B's virtue #1". And definitely there are cases of that. But in many/most cases that difference is intentional, and is designed to balance the strengths/weaknesses of those cultures.

So, MMT are at least one Virtue "up" from start, which more than well compensates them for the raised xp cost (the Rangers and High Elves both have higher xp cost AND other significant drawbacks).

Minus the value of having an extra point in Wisdom itself, which is significant.

But the thorn in my side is probably still Guard of the Tower. A MMT with a Great spear will do 17 damage(!) on a normal hit in Forward stance. That's four times as good as having a Grevious great spear. Then add to this an ability that compares to the Bardings Swordmaster, with a Parry bonus of 3 if fighting with a great shield (no Great spear then, but a Longsword will do as well). If you become weary, just change to Open stance. And, just because it wasnät good enough, add +1 Standing. Yes, a MMT os about combat but I'd say that guard of the Tower compares to the "worth" of about 4 Virtues in one.

Yeah, Guard of the Tower is pretty great. I'm not sure I would count it as "4 virtues in 1" because the three options
are mutually exclusive in practice. Remember that at 96 XP the MMT is going to have 2 fewer dice to attack with, all else being equal*. Does any one of those GotT abilities make up for 2 whole dice? I think not.

*(Or he's going to have two fewer virtues, or two fewer rewards...)

I like the Men of Bree and agree that thay have some nice Virtues (out of memory and old tales and Friendly and inquisitive come to mind but others are not impressive; compare the terms of the parry bonus from Desperate courage with Guard of the Tower above for example). But with only 13 Attribute Points they are really "behind" from the start and should be compensated somehow. Dunlendings have some amazing blessing, rewards and virtues, Breelanders do not. And they start with low Endurance AND the lowest Hope value possible. That doesn't make sense to me; they should at least have a nice portion of Hope to use with their abilities.

On Men of Bree it's going to be mostly a matter of opinion because their advantages don't correlate into hard numbers, and especially not in combat, which is easiest to quantify. I happen to love their virtues and rewards and reading through AC it was the culture I most wanted to try. But I recognize that for somebody who doesn't like the gameplay impact of the virtues it might seem lackluster.

[Deadmanwalking]

Really interesting to read your thoughts. I seem to be the only one with the notion of Breelanders and Men of Minas Tirith being unbalanced, and I'll give them both a second thought before changing anything. But I'll try to have another go of explaining my thoughts.

Okay.

The extra attribute Point for Men of Minas Tirith (MMT) is "worth" a little more than a Virtue/Reward if we compare it the the Lesser ring from Rivendell (which raises an attribute by one with the cost of one permanent Shadow). It is also significally better than a Mastery.

One point up in stats is certainly nice. It's a very real advantage...but not nearly enough to make up for increased xp costs.

So, MMT are at least one Virtue "up" from start, which more than well compensates them for the raised xp cost (the Rangers and High Elves both have higher xp cost AND other significant drawbacks). They have standard starting End and Hope (22 and 8). I still think their Blessing is excellent, which Amado already has argued for above (avoiding hazards, Eye of Mordor etc).

Their Blessing is solid. Not brokenly good, but solid. And Rangers and High Elves have 3 stat-points on other cultures, not one, start with more skill points (High Elves can start with Weapon Skill 4), and have better Virtues than even the Men of Minas Tirith. And better base Endurance and Hope than normal cultures as well.

But the thorn in my side is probably still Guard of the Tower. A MMT with a Great spear will do 17 damage(!) on a normal hit in Forward stance. That's four times as good as having a Grevious great spear. Then add to this an ability that compares to the Bardings Swordmaster, with a Parry bonus of 3 if fighting with a great shield (no Great spear then, but a Longsword will do as well). If you become weary, just change to Open stance. And, just because it wasn't good enough, add +1 Standing. Yes, a MMT is about combat but I'd say that Guard of the Tower alone compares to the "worth" of about 4 Virtues in one.

Sure, but as the game progresses, stances other than Defensive (or occasionally Open for rallying purposes) become an increasingly bad idea, sharply circumscribing the utility of the Forward Stance variant in the long run.

Now don't get me wrong, it's likely the single best Combat Virtue in the game. But that doesn't in any way make it the best Virtue, or inherently broken, or really make up for the increased Wisdom and Valour costs Men of Minas Tirith suffer under. Their Virtues kinda have to be better, since they cost more.

They're a bit front loaded, and very focused on combat, which makes them look a little broken, but it's an appearance of brokenness and not the reality.

I mean, outside combat, what have they got? They have a few options, but their only travel option is mediocre (at journeys, it's a solid Virtue because of the +3 Endurance), and they have a whole one social Virtue. And combat is 1/3 of the game at most.

I like the Men of Bree and agree that thay have some nice Virtues (Out of memory and old tales and Friendly and inquisitive come to mind but others are not impressive; compare the terms of the parry bonus from Desperate courage with Guard of the Tower above for example). But with only 13 Attribute Points they are really "behind" from the start and should be compensated somehow. Dunlendings have some amazing blessing, rewards and virtues, Breelanders do not. And they start with low Endurance AND the lowest Hope value possible. That doesn't make sense to me; they should at least have a nice portion of Hope to use with their abilities.

Well, in practice, they have more Hope than Elves of Mirkwood, and vastly more than Dunlendings and Dwarves. But yeah, it's slightly low. That said, starting Hope is almost meaningless. I mean, it's a cap on starting Hope, sure, but how much you recover per session is way more relevant. And Men of Bree have the highest Hope regain of any PC option available (4 per session) due to The Big And The Little.

The lower Attributes aren't great, certainly, but Dunlendings have only 13 points as well and nobody seems to complain about them being underpowered. Why? Because they're fairly combat focused. Men of Bree are...less so. But that goes back to my earlier point about combat being 1/3 of the game at most...and even in combat the Men of Bree have some very nice advantages available.

Really, I think your core problem is actually the same in both cases: You're overvaluing combat capabilities. Combat capabilities are certainly relevant, but they are by no means the sole (or even main) measure of character power. Twice-Baked Honeycakes is the best Beorning Virtue, possibly the best Virtue in the game...and is utterly useless in combat.

Well, no need to dwell on this and I don't disagree with your posts, just not really convinced of how these +/- attribute new Cultures fit in with the design choices of others.

Well, the stat-choices are clearly thematic. The Men of Minas Tirith still have a little Dunedain blood in them, so they get an extra point, while the Dunlendings and Men of Bree are related, and have little impact on the world in the end...so they get one less. Both have things to make up for these thematically chosen options, but the choice is still clearly thematic.