Standing, Wisdom & Valour, Interaction and Holdings

[mica]

If Strider the Ranger hides his Wisdom and Valour from the Bree-folk, then any encounters he has with them will be based on the very low score (1) that he appears to be.

The moment he says, "I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn, heir of Isildur, Lord of the Dunedain," he gets his full score.

From the perspective of the mechanics what you are stating is that Aragorn has a high standing in Bree but is currently not using it because he is incognito.

Wisdom is a measure of self-understanding and capability (page 25) while Valour is according to its description 'Stature as a doer of deeds' (sounds a bit like standing to me, but as it is not I take this to be 'knowing one end of a sword from the other') and courage. As such these are qualities that somebody meeting the person would be quickly able to surmise from their bearing and how they spoke. As such under the current mechanics Aragorn gets a tolerance of either his Wisdom or Valour without his standing bonus because he was not saying who he was.

Whereas if the mechanic was Zero for standing (because he is incognito) with a +2 Tolerance for having greater than 3 in both Wisdom and Valour, you still get somebody you wouldn't immediately discount without having to ignore the fundamental mechanics to make it work.

[Stormcrow]

Valour and Wisdom also represent the reputations of a hero in the eyes of Loremaster characters, regardless of culture.

"A hero’s rank in Wisdom also determines the stature of the hero in the eyes of those that prize these qualities."

"A hero’s rank in Valour also reflects the level of renown he attained as a doer of great deeds."

This is why encounter Tolerance is based on Wisdom or Valour.

From the perspective of the mechanics what you are stating is that Aragorn has a high standing in Bree but is currently not using it because he is incognito.

No, I am saying he has high Wisdom and Valour and are not using them because he is incognito. Aragorn's culture is the Rangers of the North, and his Standing only applies to them.

[mica]

No, I am saying he has high Wisdom and Valour and are not using them because he is incognito. Aragorn's culture is the Rangers of the North, and his Standing only applies to them.

Good point, well made. Happy to concede.

I like the mechanics in principle, I just want them to be consistent in their application. It does however seem inconsistent that a culture will gift a character of zero standing with ancestral weapons on account of their valour etc. Who are these people hailing somebody a hero and handing them cultural gifts while not letting them even own a Trapper's Cabin because they haven't the standing?

So I am still back to my first couple of points:
Tolerance seems excessive under most circumstances so standing bonus is superfluous (cos you wouldn't use that and not your full valour/wisdom bonus).
There's little point in developing standing for the very rare times it will be of use, especially as a foreigner (another PC) will invariably qualify due to valour or wisdom. It seems a neglected and undervalued part of the game as everything seems to default to Valour and Wisdom.

Basically characters are rarely at the point where they will have treasure in abundance to increase their standing (having played through Tales from Wilderland etc) until they are at valour ratings that means that there is honestly little point compared to the many other undertakings they will want to do. In four years of running TOR, only one person spent a few points of treasure on standing and that was due having nothing else they actually wanted to do.