Vengance

[spivo]

Can we agree vengance is a "bad" emotion in TOR?
Would Beorn be against enacting vengance?

Trying to help a player on his background, and thought some viglund had driven him from his home and he came to Beorn hoping he would help him get revenge.
Beorn got furious, and told him he would be unwelcome in his land unless he could return understanding that revenge is not a help.
Well, not sure how that would work... but thought we would figure that out along the way.

Runing Wilderness, so maybe helping the elven lady would work, or even Baldor?

[Stormcrow]

Vengeance isn't necessarily a bad thing in Tolkien. It's not an emotion, though the desire for it is. Vengeance is often justice. But remember, while Bilbo or Frodo (or Gandalf, or Aragorn, or the wood elves!) slaying Gollum would have been just, it would not have been merciful, and mercy and pity are what eventually saved Middle-earth.

Vengeance is one of the strongest possible motivations of the Slayer Calling, more proof that it's not automatically bad. But unchecked vengeance can lead to spite, brutality, cruelty, and unjustified murder—the Curse of Vengeance.

[Summerhawk]

Also note that Aragorn encourages the party after Gandalf's fall by reminding them that they "may yet be avenged." In the Germanic/Nordic cultures Tolkien based his Northmen on, revenge would be a matter of honor, but carried too far, it becomes dangerous and that's how you get blood feuds. So a desire to reclaim his family home and see those who drove him from it punished wouldn't necessarily be a misdeed, but if it drove him to rashness or to act in a way that might provoke open war between the Beornings and Viglundings (which Beorn seems at pains to avoid if possible, but is obviously willing to accept if it comes based on DoM), then Beorn might rein him in or even reprimand him.

I think it's a really neat backstory with lots of good character development options.

[zedturtle]

Yeah, I think that Beorn forestalling vengeance is a little unlikely. Remember that this is the same guy who chased down a goblin and a warg, tormented them for intel on their plans and then slew them and put their heads on stakes. That sounds pretty vengeful to me.

Now Beorn does come back from the Battle of Five Armies as a changed Man/Magician/Were-bear. So it's possible that he might counsel patience in dealing with Viglund, waiting to bide his time until vengeance leads to justice and not unnecessary bloodshed. As noted above, retaliatory strikes have a tendency to lead to more retaliatory strikes and then wars begin.

This is much more a conceit of mine than anything explicitly stated in the source materials, but I've always thought that the feud between Beorn and Viglund is personal... not just between philosophies (free Men with a lax lord vs. heavy discipline and thralls) but also between leaders of similar stature and comparable abilities. In my games, Viglund uses the device of the Boar, much like Beorn is often represented by the Bear.

[spivo]

Thanks for your inputs.

I ended up telling the player that Beorn asked why he should help, given that he does not know the character as someone who helps others.
So in short, before Beorn will help, the player needs to establish helping others (status)/ fighting (valour).
I made it a bit vague, since I did not want the player to "just" put points in Valour and Status.