Availability of Horses & Ponies

[Otaku-sempai]

Beorn had ponies as friends. He didn't sell them.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that all Beornings would be of like mind. Some might have beasts for sale, or at least to loan. And other beasts of burden that might be available as pack animals and for hauling include donkeys, mules, oxen and kine.

In martial/frugal cultures ponies would be valued possessions. There wouldn't be extras for selling to every stranger who came through. Not at market prices, anyway.

No, but there is bound to be a few Men of the Anduin Vales who are actively breeding horses and ponies--if only a very few such Men. The ancestors of the Rohirrim once lived in the region too.

Likewise I don't see an obvious correlation between Thranduil keeping elven horses for the royal hunts and wood elves in general breeding ponies. Let alone selling them to strangers.

No, though there may be Wood-elves living on the fringes of the Forest with horses they might be willing to loan (successful Encounter required).

I'm not saying ponies can't exist in any of those places, I just think it easily fits the narrative that there aren't any for sale (if the LM doesn't want the heroes to have ponies, that is).

Oh, I'm not arguing against that. I was just making the point that such possibilities do exist in nearly all cultures.

Anybody have the relevant quotes handy from LoTR when the heroes needed ponies in Bree? That's a major settlement, at a crossroads relatively used to trade, and still the only ones for sale were kept in the Prancing Pony's stables.

I see that Jussi Martila foud the relevant quote. It is reasonable to suppose that the availability of riding animals and beasts of burden might increase in more prosperous times; traffic through Bree in the decades immediately following the restoration of Dale, Erebor and Esgaroth might be at the highest levels seen since before the fall of Arthedain. However, business doubtless falls off in the years leading up to the War of the Ring.

[Halbarad]

The Leofrings of the West Nether Vales and Beorn's folk of the West Middle Vale (Osric the Rider's Company) might well be able to furnish fellowships with mounts...for the right price.

[Deadmanwalking]

The Leofrings of the West Nether Vales and Beorn's folk of the West Middle Vale (Osric the Rider's Company) might well be able to furnish fellowships with mounts...for the right price.

The Leofrings are definitely where the group I play in have bought all their horses.

[Glorelendil]

Some might have beasts for sale, or at least to loan. And other beasts of burden that might be available as pack animals and for hauling include donkeys, mules, oxen and kine.

No, but there is bound to be a few Men of the Anduin Vales who are actively breeding horses and ponies--if only a very few such Men.

No, though there may be Wood-elves living on the fringes of the Forest with horses they might be willing to loan (successful Encounter required).

I was just making the point that such possibilities do exist in nearly all cultures.

It is reasonable to suppose that the availability of riding animals and beasts of burden might increase in more prosperous times

(emphasis added)

The point I was making is that the question of availability is open to interpretation. If the LM wants to assume that ponies are available in every settlement, or not, then either position can easily be justified.

The evidence...from the Bree incident...suggests that availability is not ubiquitous (I hope the comment about Bree being more remote that Wilderland was tongue-in-cheek). But beyond that it's whatever the LM believes will make for a good story.

[Deadmanwalking]

Oh, sure, my main comment was that they had to be available somewhere in each culture's territory, not that you can always get them all the time.

Though, that said, if you start out from Laketown (or somewhere else that clearly has ponies available), ever, and your ponies don't die or get sold, I have a hard time justifying why you can't just keep them more or less in perpetuity (assuming a Prosperous or higher Standard of Living, of course), retrieving them during Fellowship Phases if necessary.

Really, I don't think a lack of pony availability adds much to the game. Especially given that most of the really bad places likely to wear you down are probably rough enough terrain you can't bring ponies with you in the first place.

[PencilBoy99]

Is it true that Hobbits and Dwarves can only ride Ponies (not horses)?

Which one reduces fatigue on journey: ponies, horses, or both?

Which one reduces journey duration: ponies, horses, or both?

What determines exactly at what point on a journey you can bring/not bring horses/ponies?

What determines on which rivers you'll find a boat big enough to bring horses/ponies?

Again, my concern is that the journey subsystem adds to the game experience, and making something that nearly eliminates fatigue/hazards takes away from the game experience (by reducing fatigue or by reducing the journey time).

[Deadmanwalking]

Is it true that Hobbits and Dwarves can only ride Ponies (not horses)?

No. Though warhorses (the kind you specifically ride into combat) are indeed too large for Dwarves and Hobbits, they can ride some other horses fine.

Also, to clarify, it is generally assumed that ponies are used to transport gear while horses are ridden.

Which one reduces fatigue on journey: ponies, horses, or both?

Ponies only, officially speaking.

Which one reduces journey duration: ponies, horses, or both?

Horses only, I believe.

What determines exactly at what point on a journey you can bring/not bring horses/ponies?

LM call, really.

What determines on which rivers you'll find a boat big enough to bring horses/ponies?

Again, LM call.

Again, my concern is that the journey subsystem adds to the game experience, and making something that nearly eliminates fatigue/hazards takes away from the game experience (by reducing fatigue or by reducing the journey time).

Uh...ponies only reduce Fatigue by 1 (from 2 or 3 per failed test to 1 or 2). Horses only reduce the journey's time by half, and only in the open (no shortening journeys through Mirkwood that way). Neither makes journeys feel easy, believe me.

[Jussi Marttila]

The evidence...from the Bree incident...suggests that availability is not ubiquitous (I hope the comment about Bree being more remote that Wilderland was tongue-in-cheek). But beyond that it's whatever the LM believes will make for a good story.

In a way, Bree is. It's the only sizable settlement of Men on the western side of the Misty Mountains since Tharbad was abandoned. What traffic goes through Bree is Dwarves travelling to and from the Blue Mountains, mostly. The Wilderland has post-Smaug two new kingdoms going on for it, Beorn becoming a chief, the Woodland Realm opening up a bit and the trade with Dorwinion going on. A far more developed trade network means in this case more horses around.

[PencilBoy99]

Thanks! This makes sense. Do like me some ponies.

[Falenthal]

[Not sure] Woodmen, Beornings, or Mirkwood Elves are particularly [...] have extras for sale.

Bree, Laketown, or Dale, sure.

I share this idea, and I'd play it this way:

-Some settlements (Bree, Lake-town, Dale,...), specially those that see lots of trade, have ponies and boats for loan or even for sale. In fact, it is probably a business itself to loan or sell transports to traders.
In those settlements, a simple monetary transaction is needed to get ponies or boats, based on the Standard of Living of the characters, as specified in the Rulebook.

-Other settlements have ponies and boats for their own use (or as friends, like the special case of Beorn). They might be the boats they use for fishing, or the ponies used to bring iron from Mountain Hall to Woodmen-town, etc. So, those resources are not for sale nor loan. But, during the Adventure phase, the fellowship will surely have some interactions in those places, and an Encounter with one of the main chiefs of the settlement. The LM can include allowing the use of ponies/boats as part of the outcome of the Encounter. For example, getting more than 4 successes makes the chieftain of Woodmen-town lend the party some poneis. Or in the case of Beorn, maybe 7 successes are needed for him to tell some of his pony friends to go with the fellowship.
In these settlements, getting a transport might be part of the adventure and a way of fun, even allowing for some small tasks ("If you manage to repair that old boat, then it's yours to take away. It keeps sinking everytime I try to fix it." Player can then call for a Craft test, or invoke the Boating or Woodwright traits.)