Treasure Points at later stages

[Bullroarer]

Heya, although I'd love to, I've never actually played TOR. However, I'm looking to start an AiME campaign using (stealing) TOR's treasure point system.

Something I've been wondering is, how much treasure would a companion generally hold at one time after a couple of adventures?

I know the Marsh-bell, an introductory adventure, pays something like 5 treasure points per companion. What's the payout on later adventures?

I also know that the adventurer's book mentions sums of treasure in the thousands, but is it common for adventurers to get to a point where they hold more than a hundred unspent treasure points at the same time?

I'm not really looking for a scientific paper on the matter, just a ballpark number based on your experience with the TOR system.

This part is irrelevant and you don't need to read unless you're bored out of your mind:

Reason I'm asking is because I'm planning on presenting the players with physical representations of treasure in the form of colored glass beads. At the moment I have 5 types of gemstone each with a different treasure value:

60x Sapphire (1TP)
30x Emerald (2TP)
30x Ruby (3TP)
12x Diamond (25TP)
12x Black Diamond (50TP)

For a total value of 1110TP.

I have 6 players, which means there's 185TP for each player. What I'm trying to figure out is if I should rearrange the TP values to ensure that there won't be a shortage of glass beads?

Cheers.

[Deadmanwalking]

Treasure is almost completely irrelevant in the grander scheme of things.

If you have the Rivendell book, it includes the concept of Hoards, their usual size, and the magical items to be found therein. Gems worth more than 1 Treasure such as you describe would be acquired under very specific circumstances by those rules (by default, all Treasure is 1 Encumbrance per piece), but would be almost an afterthought or disappointment since magical items are cooler.

But, like I said, it basically doesn't matter. Treasure if the non-magical variety is of extremely limited utility in TOR. You use it for very few things, and have little actual need of what it provides (mostly, it provides only Standing). The amount you have listed is enough to buy all the PCs Standing to 6 each, or Standing 5 each and upkeep it in perpetuity. Do you want that? If yes, give it out, if not, make it less impressive...or unable to be transported. Mechanically, this difference will matter little in the long run. Treasure just isn't something the game system actually cares all that much about.

If you're asking about built-in game assumptions, well, a hoard such as you describe might well exist, but the PCs would likely not get to take more than a fraction of it away with them. And I'd be shocked if a hoard that size didn't include magical items of worth. Really, if dealing with huge hoards, I highly recommend acquiring the Rivendell book and following its guidelines...but those guidelines are more thematic (in the sense of 'this is what kind of hoard there would be in this kind of situation') rather than based on how powerful or advanced the PCs are. I mean, like I said, the game just doesn't care how much mundane treasure the PCs get. Basically at all.

[Bullroarer]

Treasure is almost completely irrelevant in the grander scheme of things.

If you have the Rivendell book, it includes the concept of Hoards, their usual size, and the magical items to be found therein. Gems worth more than 1 Treasure such as you describe would be acquired under very specific circumstances by those rules (by default, all Treasure is 1 Encumbrance per piece), but would be almost an afterthought or disappointment since magical items are cooler.

But, like I said, it basically doesn't matter. Treasure if the non-magical variety is of extremely limited utility in TOR. You use it for very few things, and have little actual need of what it provides (mostly, it provides only Standing). The amount you have listed is enough to buy all the PCs Standing to 6 each, or Standing 5 each and upkeep it in perpetuity. Do you want that? If yes, give it out, if not, make it less impressive...or unable to be transported. Mechanically, this difference will matter little in the long run. Treasure just isn't something the game system actually cares all that much about.

If you're asking about built-in game assumptions, well, a hoard such as you describe might well exist, but the PCs would likely not get to take more than a fraction of it away with them. And I'd be shocked if a hoard that size didn't include magical items of worth. Really, if dealing with huge hoards, I highly recommend acquiring the Rivendell book and following its guidelines...but those guidelines are more thematic (in the sense of 'this is what kind of hoard there would be in this kind of situation') rather than based on how powerful or advanced the PCs are. I mean, like I said, the game just doesn't care how much mundane treasure the PCs get. Basically at all.

Exactly what I wanted to know, cheers! Magical items and hoards aren't really a thing yet for AiME, that's supposed to be in the Loremaster's book coming out later this month, but I reckon the rules will be very similar to TOR. Standing isn't something you buy with treasure in AiME, but the players will have the ability to order dwarven-made armour and weapons using their treasure. I may have a browse through the Rivendell book if I can find it in my FLGS.

With this new information I might just make the gems worth 1TP across the board. Sounds like a character wouldn't have even 20TP at one time. How much would you say a point of encumbrance would be in pounds/kgs?

Again, cheers!

[Stormcrow]

Treasure is almost completely irrelevant in the grander scheme of things.

Treasure is essential if you want to have any station back home other than "vagabond." The people back home don't appreciate how you've abandoned a normal life and your responsibilities to go adventuring, and they don't care about your derring-do or your wisdom. But if you bring back chests of gold and silver and give of it freely, they'll be willing to overlook your peculiarities and give you a place of honor.

Bilbo lost his neighbors' respect, but they ALL came to his final birthday party.

Treasure also lets you buy more and better supplies by letting you increase your Standard of Living, unless you started out Rich to begin with.

[Deadmanwalking]

Exactly what I wanted to know, cheers! Magical items and hoards aren't really a thing yet for AiME, that's supposed to be in the Loremaster's book coming out later this month, but I reckon the rules will be very similar to TOR. Standing isn't something you buy with treasure in AiME, but the players will have the ability to order dwarven-made armour and weapons using their treasure. I may have a browse through the Rivendell book if I can find it in my FLGS.

With this new information I might just make the gems worth 1TP across the board. Sounds like a character wouldn't have even 20TP at one time. How much would you say a point of encumbrance would be in pounds/kgs?

Again, cheers!

Well, a sword is 2-3 Encumbrance, while a mail shirt is 12 and a PC can only carry 25-30 or so max over any distance...so, between 2 and 3 pounds or roughly a kilogram or so, probably though I imagine how awkward it is also a factor (or the swords would probably be less encumbrance).

And no problem, happy to help.

Treasure is essential if you want to have any station back home other than "vagabond." The people back home don't appreciate how you've abandoned a normal life and your responsibilities to go adventuring, and they don't care about your derring-do or your wisdom. But if you bring back chests of gold and silver and give of it freely, they'll be willing to overlook your peculiarities and give you a place of honor.

Bilbo lost his neighbors' respect, but they ALL came to his final birthday party.

Right, but being treated like anything other than a vagabond is a luxury, not something especially useful or necessary mechanically. It's relevant thematically, but almost meaningless mechanically. Which was sorta my point.

Treasure also lets you buy more and better supplies by letting you increase your Standard of Living, unless you started out Rich to begin with.

Sure, but that's only sometimes necessary or useful, and only costs 1 Treasure per Adventure Phase anyway. That's such a small amount of Treasure that it still makes total treasure awards being low or high not a very meaningful distinction.

[Bullroarer]

Well, a sword is 2-3 Encumbrance, while a mail shirt is 12 and a PC can only carry 25-30 or so max over any distance...so, between 2 and 3 pounds or roughly a kilogram or so, probably though I imagine how awkward it is also a factor (or the swords would probably be less encumbrance).

You wouldn't happen to know where I could do some reading on the weight/encumbrance system? Is it in the adventurer's book? I'm specifically interested in the weight of equipment using Encumbrance.

[Stormcrow]

Right, but being treated like anything other than a vagabond is a luxury, not something especially useful or necessary mechanically. It's relevant thematically, but almost meaningless mechanically. Which was sorta my point.

I kinda think the point of playing a Tolkien-based game is the theme. But no, if all you care about is sticking swords into orcs, then there's no point keeping any treasure you find. It'll just weigh you down.

[Deadmanwalking]

You wouldn't happen to know where I could do some reading on the weight/encumbrance system? Is it in the adventurer's book? I'm specifically interested in the weight of equipment using Encumbrance.

Huh? Encumbrance is a core part of TOR. Any weight equivalent is approximate, though.

I kinda think the point of playing a Tolkien-based game is the theme. But no, if all you care about is sticking swords into orcs, then there's no point keeping any treasure you find. It'll just weigh you down.

My point, to be clear, was that as an LM you can base the amount of treasure you award entirely on theme, since it's mechanically meaningless, not that PCs shouldn't try and get Treasure.

So if you want to run a game where the PCs are penniless vagabonds you can give out almost none, while if you want them to be well-respected you can give out lots, both without meaningfully changing the power level of the game in any way, only the tone. And that thus there are no defined rules for the 'right' amount of Treasure (which was the question asked).

Also, your tone is coming off as kinda hostile and accusatory, if that's not your intent, could you maybe be a little more careful with your wording?

[Angelalex242]

In most games I've played, Treasure is not really much to be found. And when I did find it, all I did was turn it in to Elrond for standing. However, I was in general more interested in collecting Patrons then collecting Standing.

[Terisonen]

Encombrance in TOR not exactly represent weigh or size but merely the burden you have to travel with and care of. Sure, to have a handful of gold coin is more concerning than to put them in your pocket and happily return home.