The Hobbit.

[Stormcrow]

Tolkien's Hobbit was written as a children's book, but Jackson's Hobbit films were created for adultish people. Just look at the rating in the US for confirmation: PG-13.

Tolkien did not hide violence and adult themes from children, but he did diffuse them to keep them from being overwhelming. Jackson, on the other hand, glories in the violence. I believe we've seen three decapitations in two movies so far, not to mention all the examples of elves slaughtering orcs in various creative ways.

[Tolwen]

I do believe that Bard was a member of the Lake Town watch, not a smuggler. The reason he is known as Bard the Bowman is because he shoot down a fricking dradon with a bow.

He was the captain of a company of bowmen defending Laketown against Smaug. Thus it is very likely that he was an important part of the Laketown establishment and authority ("government" so to say) rather than a smuggler and revolutionist conspiring against this very authority.

It reminds me of the major change of Aragorn's character and motives in the movie vs. the book.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Beran]

Tolkien's Hobbit was written as a children's book, but Jackson's Hobbit films were created for adultish people. Just look at the rating in the US for confirmation: PG-13.

Tolkien did not hide violence and adult themes from children, but he did diffuse them to keep them from being overwhelming. Jackson, on the other hand, glories in the violence. I believe we've seen three decapitations in two movies so far, not to mention all the examples of elves slaughtering orcs in various creative ways.

PG-13-as I said young adult.

Decapitations are unusual when detailing a society that wars with bladed weapons?

[Stormcrow]

PG-13-as I said young adult.

The films being allowed to an unaccompanied teenager is not the same as pandering to them.

Decapitations are unusual when detailing a society that wars with bladed weapons?

Yes, because it's very hard to decapitate with hand-held weapons.

But that's not what I said. The films go out of their way to depict decapitations. Tolkien mentions one in The Hobbit, and softens it by making it into a joke about the invention of golf. He mentions another decapitation in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings, but it occurs "off-screen." Jackson, on the other hand, shows us in gory detail every decapitation Tolkien ever mentioned, and invents new ones. Tolkien wants us to be horrified; Jackson wants us to taste blood. If it weren't for that pesky R rating, he'd show us blood gushing out of necks.

Jackson is not in the business of making children's stories, and he's not pandering to adolescent boys. The simple fact is that this is what most movie audiences want to see these days. Compare to all those superhero movies that come out nowadays; they're much the same thing.

[Beran]

PG-13 is for young adults not adolescent boys.

Quite right he is in the business of making money and the PG-13 audience expands that base. He is in the business to make whatever puts the target audience into the seats at the theater.

So, as long as a death is made into a joke it is ok for young audiences?

"Yes, because it's very hard to decapitate with hand-held weapons."

Most of the battles I studied while getting my degree say other wise.

[Elmoth]

Just saw the film yesterday.

100% better than the first movie. Lots of added material (quite a lot of it could be removed wiothout problems) but in opposition to the first film, it does not get boring and the additions do not look too much out of place. The biggest issue is the lack of pace in the film, since the changes in locations detract from a crescendo in tension. The ending is a HUGE letdown as well, both the momment where it ends and the fact that you get a One Direction-ish / Take That-ish music just after the final sentence of Smaug.

All the par tof Dol Guildur was way less good than I thought it would be, though, and the zoophilia on the part of Tauriel is weird.

Smaug rules. Big time. Erebor rocks. The change in the black arrow is OK as well, even if I thought that it would grate me it didn't. Beorn was way below average, though. I liked the Legolas of this film better than the one in the LotR; here he looks more like a detached push moronic prince with a clear sense of position in the world (as it should be) than in the LotR films where he is just an insufferable teenager. I didn't mind his inclusion here since they decided to give the elves more screen time.

All in all, an average-low film with amazing scenery and lots of visual references to Middle Earth that I enjoyed. And the dragon is just cool. I would watch it again fast forwarding everything pre-smaug and consider myself satisfied.

In relation to TOR, the escenes presented give a nice visual background for when we play the game. The black forest, specially looks great. Erebor looked better in the first 10 minutes of the previous film (the only part tghat is truly amazing along with the riddles in the dark scene) but in both cases they are great.

Cheers,
Xavi

[Stormcrow]

So, as long as a death is made into a joke it is ok for young audiences?

Stop being obtuse. Tolkien disapproved of sanitizing the stories told to children, but he did not want to traumatize them. The passage from The Hobbit about Bullroarer Took clubbing Golfimbul's head into a rabbit hole in the Battle of Greenfields and thus inventing the game of golf is a genuinely funny story, but it doesn't hide the fact that during a battle a goblin was decapitated. On screen you can't show a gory, bloody scene of decapitation and then add a slapstick gag of someone suddenly getting the idea for golf and expect children not to be traumatized—that's not diffused violence.

Tolkien not only wrote The Hobbit for children, he mostly wrote it for his children. He wasn't trying to freak them out.

"Yes, because it's very hard to decapitate with hand-held weapons."

Most of the battles I studied while getting my degree say other wise.

Pray, give us some examples of easy decapitations from historical battles. Everything I've ever read on the subject suggests it requires a very sharp blade and a strong, careful stroke—things you're not going to get on a battlefield.

[Beran]

Pray, give us some examples of easy decapitations from historical battles. Everything I've ever read on the subject suggests it requires a very sharp blade and a strong, careful stroke—things you're not going to get on a battlefield.

Pretty much every battle report I've read on warfare in the Roman and Greek world tell of amputations all around..arms, legs, heads, etc. There is a Corinthian Helmet found at Thermopylae in the ROM that was found with the owners skull still inside, with a nice clean cut through the neck vertebrae.

[Otaku-sempai]

PG-13 is for young adults not adolescent boys.

What an odd statement. PG-13 = 13 years-old and up (as well as suggested parental supervision). So, more accurately, the target audience is adolescents through adults. Devourers of fantasy who first became aware of Tolkien during the pulp-era might be just as eager to see The Desolation of Smaug as a person who only became aware of Middle-earth through Peter Jackson's LotR films. As a child of the '60s, I fall between the two extremes.

[Stormcrow]

Pray, give us some examples of easy decapitations from historical battles. Everything I've ever read on the subject suggests it requires a very sharp blade and a strong, careful stroke—things you're not going to get on a battlefield.

Pretty much every battle report I've read on warfare in the Roman and Greek world tell of amputations all around..arms, legs, heads, etc. There is a Corinthian Helmet found at Thermopylae in the ROM that was found with the owners skull still inside, with a nice clean cut through the neck vertebrae.

You haven't given any examples yet of easy decapitations; you've only made claims. What were the circumstances of the decapitated Corinthian?

Again, I'm not saying amputations and decapitations didn't happen but in the middle of a fight you can't just swing a weapon and expect head to come away from body. And Jackson likes to show them. I just did a Google search for "Peter Jackson decapitation," and the first hit was titled "It was nice to see a Peter Jackson movie without a decapitation in it." The exception proves the rule. Frequent decapitations in battle is a movie convention, not a realistic fact.