Please help this newbie on Patrons & Meet Patron"undertaking

[lucacherstich]

I'm still a newbie loremaster to this game and need some advice on the following.
Please, help me with your knowledge!!

1) PATRONS.
I've seen there are requirements to take one...but how does one NPC becomes patron? There is no Fellowship Undertaking for that, so I guess it's something which just happen through roleplay during the Adventure phase. Am I wrong?

2) USE OF PATRONS?
In terms of mechanics: what do patrons do? Should I use them just as "generic" helper, devicing each time one possible help, or are there any mechanics?

3) "MET PATRON" undertaking.
I do not understand the use of this undertaking. Reading the description in the corebook it looks like there is no mechanical effect....but I suspect it's just a way to create a meeting scene to roleplay: am I wrong?
And, furthermore, isn't it unfair to waste a whole fellowship phase to Meet a Patron?
I mean, if Beorn is my patron and Beorn's House my sanctury and I spend a whole fellowship phase there (whole 3 months) .... why should I spend an undertaking just to speak with Beorn? I suspect it is something which sooner or later should have happened in those 3 months without spending any undertaking!

[zedturtle]

Patrons are the powerful personalities of Middle-earth, and having one as a Patron of the Company can mean that the group can wield a good deal of influence with the Patron. It also means that the Patron can wield a great deal of influence with the group.

Do you have just the core rules or do you have The Adventurer's Companion as well? There's a lot of information in that book about various patrons and the various kinds of influence and powers that they can provide.

As to #3... there's every chance that if you spent a Fellowship Phase at Beorn's House that you multiple conversations with the lord of the land. Selecting Meet Patron means that you had a meeting that is going to have significant impact... either in the Adventuring Phase or the coming Tale of Years.

[Majestic]

I take 'Meet Patron' to mean more than just the characters simply meeting with them. I take it to mean more 'Acquire Patron', though from the wording chosen I can see where it might be taken that the Undertaking simply means the opportunity to meet with them.

So when the storyline warrants it, and the players show an interest in acquiring a new Patron, I allow them to take the Meet Patron Undertaking and gain a new Patron. The logic being, if they weren't a Patron by the time you meet with them (after spending an Undertaking on it), you wouldn't really be meeting with a Patron.

Remember, too, that it is said that these powerful personalities often require something in return as well (so getting a new Patron could be somewhat of a double-edged sword).

[lucacherstich]

I take it to mean more 'Acquire Patron', though from the wording chosen I can see where it might be taken that the Undertaking simply means the opportunity to meet with them.

That's what I was thinking about, since there is no mechanics for acquiring a Patron.
And, since you have to spend a whole Undertaking for acquiring a sanctuary, I thought that the same should be valid for Patrons....but unfortunately the description of the undertaking does not say that.
The text on p.197 really seems to refer just to a meeting and conversation!

Do we have any official answer from the author or from Cubicle 7 people?

[Dunkelbrink]

I had the same issues with the undertaking. The solution is, I think, to look at the Adventurer's companion where boons from patrons are discussed, or the Loremaster's guide for Adventures in Middle-earth where the undertaking is called "influence patron". So, by choosing this undertaking you have an important meeting with the patron, trying to influence him or her, or trying to gain some boon from them. So, something more than just chatting.

Acquiring a patron on the other hand is better suited for an Adventure phase, I think. It's a different kind of achievement, and the Fellowship shouldn't normally add new characters or places better suited for an adventure.

[Falenthal]

By the book, getting a Patron is something gained during an Adventure phase. The acts of the heroes allow them to gain the recognition of an important personality of the Free People.

Once they have a Patron, meeting him is not a matter of "gaining something" in material or mechanical terms. It serves to advance or influence the plot of the campaign, related to the players' wishes.

If the fellowship has Dáin as a Patron, and during the Adventure phase meet Frár the Beardless, they might get sympathetic with the exiled dwarf goal or retaking the Greydelve. Maybe the company can decide to spend an Undertaking meeting Dáin, as their Patron, to talk him into giving some support to Frár. They themselves can offer to oversee the expedition to the Greydelve, or the hiring of mercenaries with dwarven gold, or scout the place to decide if the danger is too big, etc. If it goes well (a Persuade test might be asked for, or a high Standing among Dwarves), in the next Adventure phases the LM can present some adventures about how the group involve themselves with Frár and how they manage to get Dáin's support.

If Dáin hadn't been the fellowship's Patron, or they hadn't spend an Undertaking convincing him, then Frár would have hitted Dáin's wall of thought for years and the Greydelve would have never been retaken. Having and meeting the Patron is a way for the heroes to influence the outcome of the Passing of Years.

[Majestic]

To be clearer about what I meant and how I've done it, I have the Fellowship Phase be the time when the party *officially* designates someone as their Patron (via the Undertaking), but only when the story supports it via the activities of the preceding Adventuring Phase.

In other words, if the group of adventurers just showed up at the Carrock for the first time, then said "we want to make Beorn our Patron", that wouldn't fly (and my group has never tried anything like that).

It's only when - in the normal course of adventuring (during the Adventuring Phase) - the party has accomplished deeds for, or earned the respect of, a particular notable figure, that they then formalize that by (during the Fellowship Phase) making that person their Patron with the 'Meet Patron' Undertaking.

[Angelalex242]

Also...what do you think about characters in the group having different Patrons?

The Mirkwood Elf might gain Thranduil's patronage...
While the High Elf gains Radagast and Elrond...
While the Woodman also gains Radagast...
And the Barding gains King Bard.

[Falenthal]

Also...what do you think about characters in the group having different Patrons?

The Mirkwood Elf might gain Thranduil's patronage...
While the High Elf gains Radagast and Elrond...
While the Woodman also gains Radagast...
And the Barding gains King Bard.

I've sometimes played it like that, specially if a certain hero spends most of his Fellowship phases at a certain place (usually at home) and has met the leader during the Adventure phase and worked for him then.

The leader can then give information, a job, whatever to that hero only, and he will be the one that passes whatever is needed to his companions.

But I think that it shouldn't be abused. In fact, that can be represented by a high Standing rate among your culture, that allow you (if the player plays it so) to have contact with your leader: being in the inner counsel, or among the wise of your town, or whatever.

A Patron is probably something a bit different, someone who doesn't simply know a character, but that has his own plans and "big ideas" and relies on the whole group to help him with them, considering the group agrees with those ideas.

There should be some difference between the contacts of a character with a high Standing, and a fellowship's Patron.

[Majestic]

Also...what do you think about characters in the group having different Patrons?

The Mirkwood Elf might gain Thranduil's patronage...
While the High Elf gains Radagast and Elrond...
While the Woodman also gains Radagast...
And the Barding gains King Bard.

I think something like this could easily happen in a game, depending on what the players do. Some of my players have different Patrons than each other, though there are some that they collectively acquired as well.