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beckett wrote:The Fellowship points refresh each session, not just at the Fellowship Phase.

"A company’s Fellowship pool is completely refreshed at the beginning of each new gaming session." Page 33 LM

I KNOW that the fellowship pool refreshes at the beginning of each session, that is part of the point I am trying to make. At the end of each weekly session every player can gain back one point of hope (if no one has used any from the pool), or at least take the points remaining in the pool and share them as the players see fit, to add points back to their Hope totals. I don't remember anything in the rules saying that if a person takes a point from the pool he has to spend it, just that spending a point from the pool gives the player back a point of Hope. At the end of each week the players can take what's left in the pool and use those points to gain back Hope. To quote the book, "Players may take advantage of their entire Fellowship pool of points, or use just a part of it, or not at all." All those point do is give back a point of hope for each fellowship point spent. People can also gain back points from their fellowship focus. Anyway, no matter how it happens the players are gaining back Hope points while they are adventuring, which may be for just a few weeks. The time line says have an adventure, then a fellowship phase, and maybe have two adventures a year. During the end of year fellowship phase characters are together for months without the hardships of adventuring to drain their hope. This is why they can also remove shadow points if they choose to. During all this down time, why doesn't hope renew completely while the characters bond in a non-threatening atmosphere for weeks on end? I get that it is a game mechanic and I see what it is supposed to do. I get the whole thing about Boromir and Frodo. They had adventures that lasted months without any fellowship phase to "recharge their batteries" so to speak. . People have become miserable in our game and risked madness. it (madness) hasn't happened yet, but it's a mater of time before it does. You say that Hope is supposed to be regained at different rates, and I agree. That is why I think Hope should renew completely during an end of year fellowship phase

killianred wrote:During all this down time, why doesn't hope renew completely while the characters bond in a non-threatening atmosphere for weeks on end? I get that it is a game mechanic and I see what it is supposed to do. I get the whole thing about Boromir and Frodo. They had adventures that lasted months without any fellowship phase to "recharge their batteries" so to speak. . People have become miserable in our game and risked madness. it (madness) hasn't happened yet, but it's a mater of time before it does. You say that Hope is supposed to be regained at different rates, and I agree. That is why I think Hope should renew completely during an end of year fellowship phase

Then change it for your game, no one is going to stop you. You've asked for opinions here and we've given them based on the fact that if you let all Hope refresh at the end of the Fellowship Phase then you'd be affecting the balance of the game and that Hope is meant to be a dwindling precious commodity that is very difficult to replace (ie, personal Hope).

Think of it this way:

* Personal Hope doesn't refresh directly (unless you purchase the specific Virtue) and is meant to be a precious commodity that dwindles.

* Fellowship Hope refreshes but only when characters are narratively at risk (ie, during game sessions) or once in the Fellowship Phase (ie, as reward for completing the adventure).

The two elements drive the narrative in different ways.

But, it's your game, so do what you want.

I can live with that. I am not trying to be deliberately obstinate, and I want to play the rules as written. But to me it makes sense to refresh hope during the end of year fellowship phase because characters are finally warm and safe and away from the terrors and rigors of the years' adventures. Then after a winter of rest they begin the new year fresh and full of energy, ready to face the perils of the new year. Telling the players hope does not refresh ever at all during the fellowship phase just to avoid breaking the game mechanic seems a bit lame to me. Just MHO

killianred wrote:I can live with that. I am not trying to be deliberately obstinate, and I want to play the rules as written.

Well, you have to therefore need to accept that not all mechanics make 'sense' in the real world. Game systems often simulate the 'real world' but in other instance support a certain play style, certain themes within the game, or support particular narrative styles. The personal Hope mechanic enforces certain themes important the One Ring rather than trying to make specific sense within the 'physics' of the game world.

killianred wrote:But to me it makes sense to refresh hope during the end of year fellowship phase because characters are finally warm and safe and away from the terrors and rigors of the years' adventures.

Then alter the RAW. You may regret it though, because as Common Skills increase you'll have kept replenishing Hope and the PCs will very rarely feel the need to use Hope (as their skills will be hitting the required TNs) or they'll use it as much as they like (knowing that it'll all get refreshed during the Fellowship Phase). Then you'll lose those themes within the game attached to the loss and erosion of Hope.

killianred wrote:Then after a winter of rest they begin the new year fresh and full of energy, ready to face the perils of the new year. Telling the players hope does not refresh ever at all during the fellowship phase just to avoid breaking the game mechanic seems a bit lame to me. Just MHO

You don't lose all your Shadow during a Fellowship Phase just because you've been relaxing.

Perhaps a better rule for you would be to create a comparable mechanic to recover Hope like the one which exists for reducing Shadow.

I could see that...

Make a Song of Craft roll, regain as much hope from doing so as you would've lost Shadow had you done the other undertaking.

Then again, Hope is more powerful then Shadow...

Halve Hope gained, then. 1 on normal success, 2 on great, 3 or basic heart score on extraordinary.

Also, add a rule this undertaking can only be done if you have 0 shadow points. 0 means 0, if you have permanent Shadow, you can never do this.

Hi Killian. I understand your point, and I find it reasonable. Yet let me try another angle for the "hope points" question.

Hope... well, it's Hope, not some type of "energy" or "power". It's a delicate, often overlooked resource of the human soul.
Often, time isn't enough to mend the wounds of the men and women that stood witness to the terrible power of the Shadow. Despair is a weapon of the Enemy: it cannot be defeated hiding at home, 'cause it dwell in your soul.
But maybe you can push back Despair facing the Enemy, with your friends, and winning another battle for your people. Showing that, despite the Darkness, "Day will come again".

Well, this is the way I see it and I explained to my players

PS: Not native speaker, so forgive me for some clumsy writing

Then again...

I could see full hope refreshes taking place where the 3 Great Rings of the Elves abide. (Rivendell, Lorien, wherever Gandalf happens to be). Remember, the purpose of the Red Ring of Fire is to 'kindle the hearts of those who would oppose the enemy', and Elrond and Galadriel tend to be able to keep Sauron's flunkies, and his despair, out of their realms.

Then again, Gandalf's not going to join the PCs party unless the Loremaster wants him to, and going to Rivendell and/or Lorien is WAAAAY out of the way for most parties, assuming the elves of Lorien let them in in the first place, and assuming they can even find the Last Homely House.

I agree with Corvo (and by extension, Rich H).

Hope is not some power. It is your spirit. Imagine something terrible happening to you or someone you love: a car accident, a friend dying in your arms. These things stay with you. They define your character. They do not go away while resting at home. They forever haunt you. Time does not heal the wounds of the spirit.

Also, I do not understand the desire to add another rule on top of the existing game mechanic for replenishing Hope: The Confidence Mastery. See Page 124, AB

MASTERIES
These talents can be acquired by adventurers from any culture. Each Mastery can be acquired more than once by the same character.

Confidence
Overcoming difficulties has hardened your spirit, and at the same time renewed your faith in a brighter future.
Raise your maximum Hope rating by two points. When you choose this mastery, set your Hope score again to its maximum rating.

I like that explanation very much, thank you

Corvo wrote:Hi Killian. I understand your point, and I find it reasonable. Yet let me try another angle for the "hope points" question.

Hope... well, it's Hope, not some type of "energy" or "power". It's a delicate, often overlooked resource of the human soul.
Often, time isn't enough to mend the wounds of the men and women that stood witness to the terrible power of the Shadow. Despair is a weapon of the Enemy: it cannot be defeated hiding at home, 'cause it dwell in your soul.
But maybe you can push back Despair facing the Enemy, with your friends, and winning another battle for your people. Showing that, despite the Darkness, "Day will come again".

Well, this is the way I see it and I explained to my players

PS: Not native speaker, so forgive me for some clumsy writing

Having personally experienced some pretty terrible things, this is an explanation I can certainly understand. Thanks. I sort of like the idea of a check to regain hope like removing shadow points, but I think I will leave well enough alone for now

beckett wrote:I agree with Corvo (and by extension, Rich H).

Hope is not some power. It is your spirit. Imagine something terrible happening to you or someone you love: a car accident, a friend dying in your arms. These things stay with you. They define your character. They do not go away while resting at home. They forever haunt you. Time does not heal the wounds of the spirit.

Also, I do not understand the desire to add another rule on top of the existing game mechanic for replenishing Hope: The Confidence Mastery. See Page 124, AB