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Reading about the -not officially confirmed as far as I know- incoming Bree supplement, I wonder if it would be a full Western Eriador supplement or a more modest Bree surroundings one... as many other people have already posted here.

This post is meant to express a specific concern about a typically overlooked culture in Middle-Earth rpg: the Elves of the Grey Havens. Why? In the Adventurer's Companion we find Breelanders (both Men and Hobbits) and Blue Mountains' Dwarves... the typical two-cultures-combo in regional books of The One Ring line (see Riders of Rohan, Erebor or Rivendell book)... I'm afraid this combo would strike again in Bree supplement (Breelanders + BM Dwarves)... leaving Elves of the Grey Havens in the classic limbo they seem to be doomed to.

So I simply write this hoping that someone in Cubicle7 would read it and find in his/her heart (and in his/her publishing plans ) time to spend on this fascinating culture... the perfect place for it would be the Western Eriador supplement, of course... so if the Bree book will be that supplement perhaps I arrive a bit too late with my pledge...

Of course, a bit of support from other fans would not do any harm...

I'm hoping that the Bree hardcover will be for Western Eriador what the Rivendell sourcebook was for the eastern parts of the region. If that is indeed the case then it could also cover such places as The Shire, the Grey Havens, the Blue Mountains and the Ice Bay of Forochel as well as the surrounding regions. The regions of Lindon might be too much to expect. The price point ($29.99 US) is comparable to the Erebor book which at 112 pages still managed to cover a lot of ground.

Notable places I want to know more about:
- The Halls of the Dwarves
- The Mines of the Dwarves
- Mithlond (the Grey Havens)
- The White Towers
- Annúminas
- The Old Forest
- Eryn Vorn
- The ruins of Lond Daer
- And, of course: Bree, Hobbiton and the Hill, Brandy Hall in Buckland, the Great Smials in Tookland, and Michel Delving.

That region display would be great (I agree with you about Lindon beyond the Grey Heavens).

My concern is about the people, not the land... It would be sad to see the first or second biggest community of High Elves not visited in another Middle-Earth rpg...

voronwe wrote:My concern is about the people, not the land... It would be sad to see the first or second biggest community of High Elves not visited in another Middle-Earth rpg...

Oh, agreed! However, I'm not confident that we will see the High Elves of the Grey Havens presented as an Heroic Culture (advanced or otherwise) in the same way we saw the Rangers of the North and the High Elves of Rivendell presented in the Rivendell sourcebook. However, perhaps I am underestimating the role the Elves of the Grey Havens took in the events of the late Third Age. Were they very active past the Fall of Angmar and the (failed) mission to rescue King Arvedui of Arthedain and his followers at Forochel (TA 1975)? I don't think that the Havens were represented at all in the War of the Ring with the exception of the participation of Galdor, envoy of the Elf-lord Círdan, at the Council of Elrond.

I guess the same can be said about the Wayward Elves or the Wild Hobbits of Wilderland... not that they did anything (or even exist anymore) at the time of the War of the Ring (or more precisely, even some decades before, after the death of Smaug).

I think it is not about the higher or lower participation of a culture in the main events but about its presence or relevance in late Third Age. In that term, the Elves of the Grey Havens were the second of third largest Elven community in all Western Middle-Earth and ranked similarly among the different peoples (whichever the race) of Eriador.

And about your statement "I don't think that the Havens were represented at all in the War of the Ring with the exception of the participation of Galdor, envoy of the Elf-lord Círdan, at the Council of Elrond"... well, without the Elves of the Grey Havens and their ships Gandalf, Frodo, Galadriel, Elrond and the others wouldn't have left Middle-Earth for Valinor at the end of the War of the Ring...

voronwe wrote:I guess the same can be said about the Wayward Elves or the Wild Hobbits of Wilderland... not that they did anything (or even exist anymore) at the time of the War of the Ring (or more precisely, even some decades before, after the death of Smaug).

The Wild Hobbits as a rule would have stayed hidden from outsiders, but Wild Hobbit Heroes might have aided in the defense of the North. Likewise, we know that forces from Dol Guldur warred against the Wood-elves of both Mirkwood and Lothlórien. There's no reason to think that the Wayward Elves wouldn't have participated in the defense of the Woodland Realm. Why would you think that they would have disappeared before then? I assume that the Wayward Elves were among those who remained in Middle-earth and faded over centuries.

I think it is not about the higher or lower participation of a culture in the main events but about its presence or relevance in late Third Age. In that term, the Elves of the Grey Havens were the second of third largest Elven community in all Western Middle-Earth and ranked similarly among the different peoples (whichever the race) of Eriador.

Yes. My point was just that by the end of the Third Age they seemed to confine themselves to the Grey Havens and Lindon; maybe wandering bands might be occasionally encountered east of the Blue Mountains and in the wilder parts of The Shire. But you're right; they might still qualify as an Heroic Culture, producing at least a few player Heroes.

And about your statement "I don't think that the Havens were represented at all in the War of the Ring with the exception of the participation of Galdor, envoy of the Elf-lord Círdan, at the Council of Elrond"... well, without the Elves of the Grey Havens and their ships Gandalf, Frodo, Galadriel, Elrond and the others wouldn't have left Middle-Earth for Valinor at the end of the War of the Ring...

Yes, but that was well after the end of the War. That's hardly the same as participating in it.

Elf of the Grey Havens' Virtue:

Elf of the Falas

When selecting the roles for a Journey that uses boats or ships, the Elf of the Grey Havens can fulfill two roles instead of just one. Additionally, the TN for all Fatigue tests of the company during Journeys with boats or ships is reduced by the Elf of the Grey Havens' Wisdom score.

I like that one, Falenthal!

See? The Elves of Lindon would make great adventurers, with lot of specific and unique flavour...

I can't see why some people find so natural Rivendell Elves roaming Middle-Earth but not so with Elves from the Grey Havens... Wandering Companies would set out from both Rivendell and the Grey Havens, I think.

voronwe wrote:I like that one, Falenthal!

See? The Elves of Lindon would make great adventurers, with lot of specific and unique flavour...

I can't see why some people find so natural Rivendell Elves roaming Middle-Earth but not so with Elves from the Grey Havens... Wandering Companies would set out from both Rivendell and the Grey Havens, I think.

Actually, I've already allowed that there might well have been such companies.

Fine! Let's see what we will find in Bree supplement now it's officially announced...