Memory

[Kullervo]

Somewhat curious how everyone else handles this.

Certainly, when some obscure fact or artifact comes up that a culture might know about, they are able to roll Lore to see if they'd heard any stories of it. Of course, some may not qualify for the Lore roll, like a dwarf who found an elven artifact, he likely cant roll Lore... Or a Beorning that spotted a Nazgul likely cant comprehend them entirely. Still, there's other cases: A dwarf seeing record of the name 'Scatha', for example, or wondering when Thrain was born. It doesnt seem to me like that is Lore, as these things they should know without any question - instead, it strains their memory. There is no memory roll in TOR, so how would you rule it?

Lore anyway?
Perhaps Riddle, as it involves figuring things out?
Or would it be Wisdom because... Wisdom?

[zedturtle]

For me, I always try to remember that the players are not the characters. The characters know a lot more about Middle-earth than the most ardent Tolkien scholar. Because it's their lived experience, the stories they grew up with, the songs they've sung every winter since they were a child and the poems that explained why things are the way they are.

So I don't make folks roll (usually) for things their character should know, even if their player does not know. Even if the LM doesn't know, I can still say "You tell him the story, as you know it, even though many others do not."

Now, if the character should not know (even if the player does) then that's worth a roll for sure.

[jamesrbrown]

Just for reference (and to teach a bit for new players), here is how the Lore skill is described in the core rules:

"Lore expresses a hero’s love for learning, be it a fascination with descriptions of distant lands, or an interest in family genealogy. Whenever an action involves knowledge of some kind, a Lore roll is required. Heroes are considered to be knowledgeable in the traditions of their own people, and so the Loremaster should rarely require a player to make a Lore test for information regarding their character’s culture, background or the area they originally come from" (Core Rules, 89).

Taking this advice, whenever a hero needs to recollect something or gain knowledge, rarely require a roll for things he should already know due to his culture and background. Beyond this, his chosen Specialities are what further qualifies what he already knows. Everything else should require a test. So, obviously if he is an Elf, he would have some knowledge of Elven-lore without having the Speciality. With the Speciality, his knowledge would run deep.

Here is a list of all the kinds of things a character could know or be tested on:

• Beast-lore: Knowledge of beasts (not enemies), their anatomy, habitats, behaviors, diet, etc.
• Elven-lore: Knowledge of the Ancient Tongue of the Elves; recollection of deeds and places lost to the Old Lore of other races.
• Enemy-lore*: Knowledge of the characteristics, habits, strengths and weaknesses of a particular race of enemy.
• Folk-lore*: Knowledge of the traditional customs, beliefs, and stories of a particular community of the Free Peoples.
• Herb-lore: Knowledge of herbs of all types; useful for cooking and preparing healing salves.
• Old Lore: Knowledge of traditions and rumours of bygone days.
• Region-lore*: Knowledge of a specific region such as the Anduin or Mirkwood; useful for planning a journey.
• Rhymes of Lore: Knowledge of brief compositions of verse that contain history; useful for supplementing Lore tests or tests involving Custom skills (Courtesy, Song, or Riddle).
• Shadow-lore: Knowledge of the dark ways of the Enemy, his strategies, influences, or even the Black Speech.

If a character does not have one of these Specialities, he should probably make a Lore test to recall or see if he has any knowledge pertaining to one of these categories.

If a character does have the appropriate Speciality, the Loremaster may call for a test, but the player may invoke the Speciality to skip the test for an automatic success. Or, he could go ahead and make the test and invoke the Speciality if he succeeds to gain an Advancement point. The Loremaster should then be prepared to impart the knowledge or secret that gives the hero an advantage or helps him make a better choice next or later in the adventure.

Sometimes, written adventures will give the Loremaster help by pointing out information that can be automatically known by companions with certain Specialities. This doesn't necessarily mean he shouldn't require a test, but that the hero may invoke the trait to automatically succeed and explain how he knows the information.

I suppose very old and obscure information would require having a Speciality and passing a Lore test of relevant difficulty. Otherwise, there would be no possibility of having the knowledge.