New TOR Loremaster with some questions

[Zodiion]

Hello!

I’m new to the TOR community and I got a couple of questions about it.

I’m a big Middle Earth fan, I traveled through New Zealand and visited a lot of different film locations, which pushed me even more in the LotR direction. I started playing the tabletop game almost 10 years ago.
So I finally decided to start with TWR and we finished “The Marsh Bell” in one session (about 5 hours) and it was an epic little adventure and everyone is hooked about the next campaign.

But there are some downsides. We got some more experienced players in our group that know some different settings (I only know the 40k and TWR rules).
Maybe you could help me with a couple of decisions:

• The player characters felt a bit flat. There have almost no diversity in stats or skills. Characters with less physical abilities felt very weak in "The Marsh Bell".
• The fights overall where a bit boring. Eventho I allowed the players to flank enemies and tried to create more tension, some of my players criticized the stances and so on. But I think it is a problem together with the next point.
• The standard weapons felt quite boring aswell, cause there is no much variation in damage (just by rolling a 6)


I was reading about the magical weapons and dual weapon fighting in the Rivendell book, but I just ordered the Hearth of the Wild book to get started in normal order.
How can I solve this problems? Do you guys think its worth to buy the Rivendell book to have excess to the new rules and make our current sessions even better?
Or maybe you have some custom rules for my problems? If you have some other thinks I should consider to change or I should know, I’m always glad to get new input and further help!

(Sorry for the bad english, I'm not a native speaker)

[Glorelendil]

Hi, Zodiion! And welcome!

Some of the reservations expressed by your friends are not uncommon for those coming from other RPGs. I think some of it comes down to expectations. TOR just isn't about killing bosses and looting them, it's about the story of Middle-earth. Combat is one of the obstacles that occasionally needs to be overcome, but it's meant to be resolved fairly quickly, and without needing to use a battle mat and miniatures.

Viewed through a lens of combat, it's true there isn't a lot of variation between characters. Where the variation comes from is the traits, which is the part most transfer players struggle with. I know when I first saw traits I thought of them as being bonuses. "Oh, I have Herb-lore, so that must provide some benefit." But instead of thinking of traits as bonuses think of them as incentives: the point of Herb-lore is to encourage the player to tell his/her story, and to explain dice rolls, from the point of view of a hero who knows a lot about Herbs.

I won't go into Traits here, as there have been other threads to discuss them at length, but understanding how they are used goes a long toward appreciating how TOR is not like other, combat-centric RPGs.

(That said, if what your friends really love is building characters and fighting monsters, take a look at C7's Adventures in Middle-earth. It uses D&D 5e rules.)

[jamesrbrown]

Before you get too discouraged, I would love to see a transcript or description of how you are running combats exactly. Maybe there are minor things that you're not understanding yet. For example, I find that the weapons in TOR are extremely diverse compared to other games. Most of the time, weapons are assigned a die type for damage and maybe a quality for special usage. In TOR, even though the damage amount is static, weapons also possess an Edge rating, Injury rating, Called Shot effect, and they can possess special qualities.

As far as stances, engagements, and combat tasks are concerned, these are very unique elements to combat in The One Ring that I find interesting. When players do not understand the flow and usage of these things, combat can seem very slow and mechanical, rather than fast and furious. So, there is a learning curve, but once you get it down, things go much quicker.

This is just my opinion of course.

[zedturtle]

James speaks wisdom, as is his wont.

To add to both James and Glorelendil's points (and Glor is wise too in his way), The One Ring is a game that works a bit differently than other roleplaying games. At first glance, it seems very familiar, but when you dig deeper you find lots of things that are not quite what you're used to.

For example, in most sessions combat shouldn't dominate the game. The forces of the Enemy are many, and they must be fought, but that doesn't mean that visiting places (Journeys) and talking to people (Encounters) are less important. In fact, oftentimes those two other elements will bring the heroes into conflict with the Enemy and then you'll get a combat. And, sometimes, your heroes would be best to avoid direct confrontation. There are foes out there that are beyond them, after all.

When you do roll combat, remember that Stances are approaches to combat. If a player tells you that they're taking a Forward Stance then ask them what does that mean to them... is the hero charging head-long into the enemy ranks with no concern for personal safety? Is she goading the adversaries to attack her? Is he desperate, taking any chance to inflict harm no matter how dangerous?

When you do Preparatory Rolls, your heroes will generate Bonus Dice. When they use one of those Bonus Dice, ask them to explain what they're doing. If the hero wants to flank an enemy or use the terrain against them or do some über-cool move then let them spend their Bonus Dice on that stuff.

As Glorelendil pointed out, the weapons are not balanced by cost (like they are in some other games) but by their range of capabilities. You can have a weapon that does decent damage but rarely one-shots an enemy (for example an axe or mattock) or a weapon that does lower damage but has an okay chance to kill them outright (spears for example). And there's another wrinkle... some weapons produce Piercing Blows quite readily but are easy to save against, whereas other weapons produce them rarely but they're very hard to save against. So there's a lot more going on with weapons than it might seem at first glance.

In any case, please tell us more about your game! We'd love to hear about what you've done and, of course, keep asking questions...

[Cleggster]

You just got some great advice, and I agree with everything said so far. I have a question though. Did you party make use of the stance abilities? I have played with a few groups that seem to see stances as just variable target numbers. Remember that someone in Open can inspire the group to keep up the fight even after taking many hits. Or having someone in Forward call out and opponent to challenge them. (whoops, that's from the Adventures Guide) Also, I admit that the fight in the Marsh Bell does not have a lot of variation. Wait until they fight a force of Orcs and ranged Goblins with a big beefy leader whipping them into the frey.

Also, if you are looking for new rules to make combat more interesting, Rivendell would not be my first choice. The new book I mentioned above has some great options for combat. Though it is not in book form yet, if your FLGS as a Bits and Mortal member you can get the PDF with a pre-order.

[Zodiion]

Hello everyone!

Thanks so much for your feedback I really appreciate every information I’m getting.

You all got a point. I think it’s quite hard to judge a new system after the first adventure. I know from the rules, that there is more variation in terms of fighting, especially in different kind of situations.
The Mash Bell isn’t supposed to have a big, epic fight (even tho it was quite epic at the end!).
I understand that it would be helpful for you, if I would write down a description from our fight. But because I’m using a translated version (german language), it would be hard to use the correct words and meanings, without confusing all of you
It’s a great tip, to let the people play/describe the actual fighting scene. I think I will encourage people in the different stances to explain how they want to fight and how their characters are acting in this situation. It could make a big difference, if the players are actually telling everyone how they want to charge into a fight or fall back to use their bow, rather than just taking one of the four stances and doing nothing by their own.
I know that the player can get an extra dice from the “Preparatory Roll”, which can be used to describe the situation even better. But the group got surprised in both fights, so this wasn’t an option ether.

Do you guys thinks it would be a good addition to get the “Magical Weapon” system from the Rivendell book? It sounds like an interesting option do get the players some nice loot and option to characterize their heroes.

I will read a bit more about the trait system and try to push it a bit further in the next adventure time, even tho it was already good. But there is always a way to improve it for the next time.
I might open another treat about some trait questions or use the search function first
But I’m not 100% sure with some of the trait together with the standard skills.

In general: TOR was awesome! It was a ton of fun for me as the Loremaster and for the players as well. The surprised face of the players, after they found out that Balin, son of Fundin himself is missing, was just priceless!
So I’m really hyped about the new campaign!

Thanks again to all of you! Have a nice weekend

[Otaku-sempai]

Okay, I have to ask: Why do you abbreviate The One Ring as 'TWR'? Just curious.

[Falenthal]

Do you guys thinks it would be a good addition to get the “Magical Weapon” system from the Rivendell book? It sounds like an interesting option do get the players some nice loot and option to characterize their heroes.

Personally, I don't think it is a good choice for beginning characters. It probably adds more confusion about rules and small mechanics than real option.
In my opinion, getting a grasp of the Rewards, Qualities (both gained by raising your Valour score), the Combat Tasks and Called Shots (which improve options during battles), and the strenghts and weaknesses of each weapon (that make each hero behave differently in combat) are an effort enough to not need anything else for months playing the game. And all of these are in the Core Book.

Once all of those options and configurations are "mastered" by the players, and only if they feel that they need still more options, then the Adventurer's Companion would be, IMHO, the way to go on.