How do the Erebor Dwarves trade their products?

[grachinski]

Thanks for the coins reply. Do you guys know if there is the traditional copper, silver and gold coins?

Yes, there are gold pieces, silver pennies and copper coins. The Lake-town Sourcebook has some additional details on those ('Silver and Gold', page 13).

Francesco

Thanks for the reply Francesco;

[DavetheLost]

Tolkien does mention coins in a few places in the novels, but they are focused on.

As for trade, it is quite possible that the magical toys from Dale at Bilbo's farewell party reached all the way to Hobbiton in part due to Bilbo's close connection to the Kingdom Under the Mountain.

As for the trade route, there is a history of trade between the wood elf kingdom and Lake Town. It is not entirely unreasonable to consider the extension of this trade further westward.

[Garn!]

The Dwarves of Erebor, after the demise of Smaug, would be looking to re-establish commerce with the other known dwarven realms (Blue Mountains & Iron Hills). They would also be interested in the nearby realms of Men and Elves within Wilderland, as well as other realms north and east, off the edge of the official map (TOR or Tolkien).

I cannot quote the source at the moment, but Tolkien does mention the dwarves shipping goods down-river to a town roughly equivalent to the Marsh-dweller settlement (this is pre-Smaug). The Old Road was then used to ship some of those goods to the West - Moria mostly, but probably there was some trade with peoples along the way, possibly to the Woodmen and down into the Brown Lands. (Keep in mind that there was a dwarven bridge over the Anduin - I think Beorn is protecting the remainder of this passage in the Hobbit.)

Goods may also have been shipped to the east and south to the unknown dwarven clans Tolkien never fully reveals. During the War of Dwarves and Orcs, Tolkien states all 7 clans are represented, so communication and commerce were likely still extant until at least that time. However this War seems to have depleted the dwindling populations of these dwarven settlements and marked the final large-scale racial event by the dwarves. Of course, this is also pre-Smaug.

I'm sure that unless the dwarves encountered evil cultures they were willing to at least consider trade. So there might have been some trade with smaller communities and/or remnant cultures (non-Northman based?) and remote settlements as the dwarves travelled through various areas. These would be excellent places to sell off the apprentice-made inferior items, particularly if they're non-combative items.

So during the First Age the dwarves traded mostly with their own communities and some of the Elves. During the Second Age other dwarven communities are still the primary market, but there is a marked increase in trade with the Elves and some commerce with Man. The Third Age would see an initial expansion (explosion?) of trade with Man, and a decline of trade with the Elves. In the later Third Age, the Dwarves themselves are in decline, leading overall to less trade than the dwarves had previously engaged in since the First Age. During the Fourth Age, the transactions between the dwarves and King Elessar for Gondor (Erebor & the Iron Hills) and for Arthedain (Blue Mountains?) probably represents 70%+ of all dwarven trade. The remainder is a very slow withdrawal from established markets, mainly due to population collapse; the loss of these goods are somewhat off-set by Man's increasing technological knowledge and skill.

PS: Yeah, Llachglin confused me as I always thought the Wood-elves were responsible for the enchanted river.

[Stormcrow]

As for the trade route, there is a history of trade between the wood elf kingdom and Lake Town. It is not entirely unreasonable to consider the extension of this trade further westward.

To where?

[Tolwen]

To where?

The Shire, the few scattered men in Eriador, the Dwarves of the Ered Luin and perhaps Elves of Lindon. And more near - the Men of the Anduin Vales.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Otaku-sempai]

As for the trade route, there is a history of trade between the wood elf kingdom and Lake Town. It is not entirely unreasonable to consider the extension of this trade further westward.

To where?

Besides the peoples of Eriador, the Western Trade Route would have also included goods coming up the Great West Road from Gondor and through Rohan, through the Gap of Rohan where it becomes the North/South Road traversing the lands of Arnor (Enedwaith, Dunland, Minhiriath, Hollin, The Shire and Bree-land). The North Road branches in Minhiriath, the right fork (the Greenway) crosses the Great East/West Road in Bree-land to continue to the ruin of Fornost; the left branch crosses the Brandywine River at Sarn Ford to end in The Shire at Michel Delving.

If Thorin Oakenshield had known about the deterioration of the Old Forest Road, with it ending in swamps on the west side of Mirkwood, he and his company would have probably used this alternate route to reach Lake-town. They would have passed through the Gap of Rohan and then have to travel overland (without roads) through Rohan and around the western edge of Mirkwood.

[Stormcrow]

In other words, it's not a reasonable extension of the trade between Laketown and settlements at the eastern end of the forest.

There are only three trading centers in Wilderland, and to are right next to each other: Laketown, Dale, and the Iron Hills. Anything else is way far away. The only sensible kinds of trade must be either between these centers and between the centers and small, unmapped settlements. At the opening of the game's period, there simply can't be any kind of serious trade across Mirkwood, so traders are restricted to the eastern side. And then, why leave the Laketown–Iron Hills corridor, except to wander around the countryside as a peddler?

[Stormcrow]

And what are all those dwarves doing traveling through the Shire prior to The Hobbit? Going to Bree? That's the only other place to go, if you count Buckland as part of the Shire, but can it really support so much dwarven traffic that the sight of them on the road occasionally is nothing unusual?

[Tolwen]

And what are all those dwarves doing traveling through the Shire prior to The Hobbit? Going to Bree? That's the only other place to go, if you count Buckland as part of the Shire, but can it really support so much dwarven traffic that the sight of them on the road occasionally is nothing unusual?

This seems to suppose (as it sounds to me) that there is nothing beside the places decsribed by Tolkien. IMHO, it is quite reasonable that there are others. The trick is to devise these others settlements and communities in a way that they fit into the lacunae left by Tolkien and integrate seamlessly into the parts he has written about. That being said, it is not mandatory that the mentioned settlements are the only, but probably the most important and visible ones.

For an approach to this topic for Eriador, you might have a look at Issue 13 of Other Minds as linked in my signature.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Otaku-sempai]

In other words, it's not a reasonable extension of the trade between Laketown and settlements at the eastern end of the forest.

There are only three trading centers in Wilderland, and to are right next to each other: Laketown, Dale, and the Iron Hills. Anything else is way far away. The only sensible kinds of trade must be either between these centers and between the centers and small, unmapped settlements. At the opening of the game's period, there simply can't be any kind of serious trade across Mirkwood, so traders are restricted to the eastern side. And then, why leave the Laketown–Iron Hills corridor, except to wander around the countryside as a peddler?

Besides Esgaroth, Dale and Erebor, you are forgetting Dorwinion. Tolkien doesn't write much about it, but Dorwinion must surely do substantial trade with Lothlorien, Gondor and possibly even Umbar. I would think that there would be those even among the Easterlings who would be willing to engage in peaceful trade for Dorwinion wine.

Also, Dain's folk in the Iron Hills must engage in some form of trade. The Redwater River joins with the River Running halfway to Dorwinion, giving the Iron Hill Dwarves access to southern and eastern markets. Tolkien failed to indicate an overland trade route through the East-lands between Dorwinion and Gondor, but it seems reasonable to assume that one existed. For that mater, there must have been a road that ran between Erebor and the Iron Hills. Tolkien might have failed to note it because it had fallen into disrepair since the coming of the dragon and, in addition, it did not come directly into the story (although one would think that the Dwarves of the Iron Hills might have maintained trade relations with the Men of Lake-town).