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Tarondor wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 pm

In fact, the Valar are quite concerned and send the Istari to Middle-Earth a thousand years early. Isildur demands and receives the hand of Celebrian in marriage, setting him against Elrond from the start.

I think of it like King Arthur's court at its height, with a different cancer (the One Ring) eating at its heart. Sooner or later, the PC's are going to have to decide between their oaths to the king and doing the right thing.

Interesting. I don't see Celeborn and Galadriel giving in to a demand for their daughter's hand, particularly if Celebrían objected to the union. What were her feelings about it? Perhaps she was forcibly abducted which would also put Gondor at odds with the Elf-kingdom of Lórien.

I'm not sure if the campaign ends with the PC's as The Fellowship, trying to destroy the Ring, or the PC's trying to somehow alter the course of the past to "correct" the time line. The latter seems satisfying in a narrative sense, but may not feel like a story Tolkien would write.

Finally, I am concerned about the characters. Clearly some would be Dúnedain. Others might be Noldorin elves. But if still others are Middle-Men, dwarves, hobbits, elves of Greenwood, etc., the power curve might be noticeably altered. Is it enough to give the "lesser" races some XP advancement? Would the "feel" of Middle-Earth be preserved? I'm not experienced enough with The One Ring to know how tinkering with the basics will affect the story.

I want an epic tale, but even more I want the story to feel like Professor Tolkien might have written it. Any advice will be gratefully received.

Well, the only hobbits would be the Wild Hobbits of the Anduin. The Dwarves would still dwell in Khazad-dûm (with some remaining in the southern Blue Mountains), so you might want one of the old Moria supplements either from MERP or Decipher's LotR rpg. The Beornings don't exist yet, though the ancestors of Beorn himself should be around somewhere. The precursors of the Rohirrim would still dwell on the plains east of Rhovanion. No Dale. No Esgaroth (or possibly a tiny fishing village on the shore of Long Lake). Thranduil's folk would not yet have retreated to the northern Greenwood.

Arnor is still around. Perhaps Isildur is beginning to perceive the North Kingdom as a threat and/or harboring ambitions to rule it for himself.

Thanks for responding.

In this story, Arnor is Isildur's realm. He's appointed himself High King and given Gondor to Meneldir as a separate but subsidiary kingdom.

As for Celebrían, I was thinking that, like Elrond in LoTR, Galadriel and Celeborn would agree to marry their daughter to the High King of Arnor and Gondor. Also, he's got a honkin' big army and the One Ring, so...

More importantly, having Celebrían as a queen helps me narratively. It gives me someone wise and powerful that is close to the King and can be a wild card in the story. Does she support her husband's goals for a powerful, just and fair kingdom (those are certainly his goals - it's his means that will become questionable) or is she secretly opposed to the shadow growing in him? Does she resent his power-play in marrying her? Or does she wish to redeem the last great hero of Númenor? Will she be an ally or a foe of the PC's?

My central question, however, was about the power disparity between PCs that are Dúnedain or Noldo versus those that are not. What would be a good way to resolve that, mechanically or otherwise?

Tarondor wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:14 am

My central question, however, was about the power disparity between PCs that are Dúnedain or Noldo versus those that are not. What would be a good way to resolve that, mechanically or otherwise?

Isn't this already largely addressed by the Advanced Cultures introduced in the Rivendell book? You might need to tweak Backgrounds, Cultural Virtues and Rewards, but the Dúnedain can be treated as the Rangers of the North and the Noldor as the High Elves of Rivendell in terms of character generation and advancement.

In this story, Arnor is Isildur's realm. He's appointed himself High King and given Gondor to Meneldir as a separate but subsidiary kingdom.

You mean to Anárion's son Melendil? I know of no Melendir. Is Valandil still the only living son of Isildur? Might he (or any other living brethren) harbor any resentment over not being given the Southern Kingdom to rule?

As for Celebrían, I was thinking that, like Elrond in LoTR, Galadriel and Celeborn would agree to marry their daughter to the High King of Arnor and Gondor. Also, he's got a honkin' big army and the One Ring, so...

First, shouldn't Isildur already have a wife (and sons!)? What happened to her? My previous question was fueled by Isildur's (High King of the United Kingdom?) demand for Celebrían's hand as though it was his divine right. I can't see Galadriel, Celeborn or Celebrían herself responding well to that. This is very different than the situation involving Aragorn and Arwen. Even if the power couple of Lothlórien gave in to the High King's demand out of a sense of political necessity, I can't help but think that there would continue to be a great deal of ill-will behind the scenes between the two realms.

High King Isildur is already setting himself up for trouble (entirely by your design, I'm sure). Besides creating the potential for external strife with his own allies, he is positioning himself in Arnor, the strategically and tactically weaker of the two kingdoms. He does have one advantage in that the Nine are unlikely to be strong enough to reappear within his lifetime. In Tolkien's timeline they did not resurface in the Third Age until around the year 1300 when the kingdom of Angmar arose. Even so, they might still be lurking in the territories that they were given by Sauron to rule in the East and South. The Easterlings, Haradrim and other Southrons should be licking their wounds for some time to come from the War of the Last Alliance.

It's hard to know what to suggest because there are thousands of ways that you could develop this story. It's very Arthurian in inspiration, so you could look to the Morte D'Arthur for ideas and underlying themes.

Yes, Meneldil, Elendil's fourth son and Isildur's younger brother. My fault for typing late at night. I hadn't thought about Isildur's existing son Valandil (his other three sons died in T.A. 2, just as in Tolkien's time line). I'll give that some thought.

Yes, the elves do resent Isildur's high-handedness. That's okay, though, because of the great ends he'll accomplish when everything goes according to his plan. Right? I'm thinking that Elrond will probably start the ball rolling by refusing to cooperate with the High King's demands.

I don't see Isildur as corrupted yet, merely well on the way to justifying any means so long as the ends are "good". He's a strong-willed hero in over his head and not some mustache-twirling bad guy. He truly believes that he can create a realm of perfect justice and peace. However, it's so easy to cut corners when you have the power to bend others to your will. Really, I see Isildur as a tragic figure in this story.

As for the Nine... I have plans. Curunir will probably have some suggestions regarding them.
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As for how the game addresses "advanced cultures", it mostly suggests you not integrate them with beginning characters and envisions that the majority of the party will still be of other races.

Do those of you experienced at TOR think that giving PCs who are not from advanced cultures a few Virtues or Rewards will help to even the power curve?