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Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:10 am
by timb
Angelalex242 wrote:Ya know, for all this talk about a court case...
What I haven't heard is:Who won the court case? I assume Middle Earth Enterprises won, or the Hobbit movies couldn't be released.
From what I can see online it is still ongoing. Warner Bro countersued the Tolkien Estate in July 2013.
All we know is that C7 pulled all digital TOR content then months later they were allowed to put up a digital copy of a published product, just no digital-only material.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:43 am
by Valarian
Still probably going on, with a settlement to be agreed at some later date. All the film releases and continued movement with Cubicle 7 means is that there wasn't an injunction granted.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:42 pm
by Otaku-sempai
Angelalex242 wrote:Well, that's a Peter Jackson thing.
Who apparently subscribes to the idea of Balrogs=Balor.
Balor, of course, being the most powerful demon type from 3.5 AD&D. Jackson's Balrog greatly resembles the 3.5 creature. Whether it resembles what Tolkien actually had in mind is anyone's guess.
Considering the Balrog is of the same species as Gandalf and Sauron, however, you think it'd look more like the latter set on fire instead of a Balor. Unlike Sauron back in the day, Balrogs can't take pleasing shapes, so it'd be purely a thing of terror.
It's fair to say that the D&D Balor was at least inspired by the Balrog of Moria.
Dungeons & Dragons owes a lot to Tolkien and the game has its origins in a military tabletop campaign recreating the battles of Middle-earth.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:39 pm
by Stormcrow
Otaku-sempai wrote:It's fair to say that the D&D Balor was at least inspired by the Balrog of Moria.
The D&D balor comes directly from Tolkien's balrog. It was even called a balrog in the first published D&D rules, but TSR was ordered not to use certain Tolkien references, so it was excised from the rule book and re-added later as the balor. Also, halflings were originally called hobbits and treants were originally called ents.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:01 pm
by Boneguard
Angelalex242 wrote:
Considering the Balrog is of the same species as Gandalf and Sauron, however, you think it'd look more like the latter set on fire instead of a Balor. Unlike Sauron back in the day, Balrogs can't take pleasing shapes, so it'd be purely a thing of terror.
That's a bit simplistic view. Yes they are all Maiar, but they are of different sub-group. IIRC Balrog are Elemental Maiar, Sauron was an Aspected Maiar and Gandalf (and they 4 other Wizards) is(are) Istari (Maiar that took a physical flesh body). So they are quite different and should be represented as such.
It's akind to me saying that all canid are the same.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:29 pm
by Jan Pospisil
I'd just add that DnD 3.5 was released in 2003 while FotR in 2001. Any visual inspiration went the other way around.
As for the question of balrog wings, I recommend this essay by Martinez:
http://www.xenite.org/special/do-balrog ... lrogs-fly/
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:30 pm
by Angelalex242
Well, D&D's 3.0 Balor looked just the same as the 3.5 one. And even before that, 2E's Balor wasn't notably changed either. Which makes me believe Jackson got the idea from TSR/WOTC then the other way around.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:09 pm
by Stormcrow
Peter Jackson obviously "got the idea" from John Howe and/or Alan Lee, and they've been painting the balrog wrong since time immemorial.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:21 am
by Beran
Stormcrow wrote:Peter Jackson obviously "got the idea" from John Howe and/or Alan Lee, and they've been painting the balrog wrong since time immemorial.
:
: I liked how the Balrog was portrayed in the movies.
Re: Saul Zaentz dies at 92
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:26 am
by Jan Pospisil
Stormcrow wrote:Peter Jackson obviously "got the idea" from John Howe and/or Alan Lee, and they've been painting the balrog wrong since time immemorial.
Yes. The balrog was sculpted (by a sculptor, not Peter Jackson) based on paintings by the two gentlemen.
(you can see the design process in the extended DVD documentaries)