Definition of Good Road

[guver]

Thanks for the replies!!!
What a mistake we have been doing. So you guys would allow horse travel over the Elf Path and not even that?
What about if they recover the old road (they are 40% complete on that task)? Woudl it be severe and allow horses or not?

[Otaku-sempai]

RAW seems to indicate otherwise, but I might consider that horses might allow themselves to be ridden on the Elf-path for at least as long as the rider is within the Woodland Realm. After that they might need to be led or a test might need to be rolled. According to RAW horses would have to be led along the Dwarf-road.

You could house-rule that one could attempt to ride a mount on a good or well-trodden road through Mirkwood, but must pass a successful Persuade test for every Fatigue test required. The rolls might be modified by using an applicable trait such as Beast-lore(?) or Horsemanship.

[ThrorII]

The maps of TOR puts Weathertop to the Ford of Bruinen at 230 miles. If the Great East Road is a good road then Aragorn should be able to cover 40 miles per day to reach the Ford in 6 days. On the other hand, if we go just by terrain: 20 miles of daunting terrain (3 days); 90 miles in severe terrain (9 days); 120 miles in moderate terrain (9 days). Using RAW and ignoring the Road, it should take Aragorn approximately 3 weeks to reach Rivendell. However if we count the East Road as a 'well-trodden path or track' then we consider the entire journey to be over easy terrain at 20 miles per day for a journey length of 12 days--exactly right.

See, under TOR and AiMe, I've always read it that the 'Good Road x0.5' means half the speed Based On the Existing Terrain, not based on base walking/riding speed.

So, using your numbers, if it is 230 miles and 21 days, travel time is multiplied by .5 for the good road, leading us to that magical 11 days of travel.

I never assumed that the 'Good Road' meant 40 miles per day on foot, regardless of terrain type. I always treated it as half the normal travel time without a road.

The point I'm making is I wouldn't assume that a Good Road over a mountain pass (daunting terrain) would be as fast as a Good Road through easy terrain. But both roads would be twice as fast as going by path or overland.

[Otaku-sempai]

See, under TOR and AiMe, I've always read it that the 'Good Road x0.5' means half the speed Based On the Existing Terrain, not based on base walking/riding speed.

So, using your numbers, if it is 230 miles and 21 days, travel time is multiplied by .5 for the good road, leading us to that magical 11 days of travel.

I never assumed that the 'Good Road' meant 40 miles per day on foot, regardless of terrain type. I always treated it as half the normal travel time without a road.

That's not how I read the footnote that accompanies the table: "Travelling across a distance on a good road gives a modifier of x0.5, halving the time needed to cover the entire route, regardless of the terrain the road traverses" (bolded for emphasis). In other words, the terrain type is completely disregarded. Checking the errata for the Loremaster's section reveals nothing that would change my interpretation of that statement. It is precisely the same principle that treats a "well-trodden track or path" as easy terrain (modifier x1) regardless of the terrain type it passes through (excepting the special rules regarding Mirkwood).

The point I'm making is I wouldn't assume that a Good Road over a mountain pass (daunting terrain) would be as fast as a Good Road through easy terrain. But both roads would be twice as fast as going by path or overland.

The Journey rules state outright that crossing the High Pass amounts to: "Sixty miles across mountain pass (15 days of march)". Okay: 60 miles x5 (daunting terrain) = 30 days.* Modify that result by x0.5 assuming a good road and we get 15 days. Hmmm. You might be on to something, though I'm not completely convinced. Aragorn's journey from Weathertop to Rivendell comes out essentially the same either way, though according to your method he should arrive in 10.5 days, a day and a half sooner than his own estimate. Of course he might have several preferred campsites that slow his travel time.

*EDIT: Aargh! That is wrong! Walking for 60 miles at a base average of 20 miles per day = 3 days. Use the modifier for daunting terrain (x5) for: 3 days x5 = 15 days. Completely ignore the normal modifier of x0.5 for the Great East Road; it does not apply within the pass (see the Terrain Difficulty table in the RAW Journey Rules). I'm coming back to the idea that when calculating a journey's duration, we should factor in the path or the over-all terrain, but not both.

[guver]

Ok... I'm clear now, although not sure if satisfied. I'm liking this new idea of a path halving the miles after calculations according to the terrain. So a path in easy terrain is not the same as a path in daunting terrain...
I'm also a little surprised about how many people are in the same position as me not knowing exactly the ruling.
Is there a way to get an official clarification?

[Arthur Fisher]

So you guys would allow horse travel over the Elf Path and not even that?

No. But that's just me and my group.
Yeah, it's in the rules that you can't take horses through Mirkwood, but that's not my reason. Bilbo travelling along the Elf-path is an enormous struggle. They all nearly die. They would have, were it not for the elves. I like to recreate that feeling of desperation going through Mirkwood.

What about if they recover the old road (they are 40% complete on that task)? Would it be severe and allow horses or not?

I would. Rules say roads ignore terrain and I'd say that trumps the road or path through Mirkwood aside. But that's not the real reason.
If the Old Dwarf Road didn't make traveling through the Mirkwood any safer than taking the Elf-Path, then there is no particular reason to build one. And I like to give my players incentive to do things that change the shape of their world.

But that's just me. Other Loremasters may see it differently.

[Otaku-sempai]

Yeah, it's in the rules that you can't take horses through Mirkwood, but that's not my reason. Bilbo travelling along the Elf-path is an enormous struggle. They all nearly die. They would have, were it not for the elves. I like to recreate that feeling of desperation going through Mirkwood.

Mounts cannot be ridden on the Elf-path; I'm not sure that they cannot be led. In fact, the Terrain Difficulty table in RAW specifically notes under severe terrain ("dense woods, very rough ground, any road or path in Mirkwood"): "A company cannot advance through woods or dense woods riding horses. The travelling characters must dismount and proceed by leading their horses on foot."

Rules say roads ignore terrain and I'd say that trumps the road or path through Mirkwood aside. But that's not the real reason.
If the Old Dwarf Road didn't make traveling through the Mirkwood any safer than taking the Elf-Path, then there is no particular reason to build one. And I like to give my players incentive to do things that change the shape of their world.

But that's just me. Other Loremasters may see it differently.

Yes, I can agree with this. This would be an exception to the ruling stated above.