Fatigue limit?

[Perdurabo]

I was wondering if there are any official rulings as to how much fatigue a character can accumulate? Any limit? Max. Endurance would seem like a natural choice, but may also be problematic. I have skimmed through all the books but I might have missed it. As Encumberance also adds to the fatigue score it is quite possible to have characters end up having quite high fatigue ratings, even much higher than max. Endurance if they are carrying treasure and heavy gear. Except for being weary and having no possibility of recovering before the next fellowship phase there seems to be no consequences (from a pure technical/rules perspective). As an example you might have a character with 28 endurance, 24 encumerance from gear, 10 encumberance from Treasure, and after 6 failed travel rolls in Fall/Winter have accumulated 18 points of fatigue. The character is of course weary at 52 points of fatigue but he might also loose some points of endurance due to combat and fail the same 6 Travel rolls returning home, making both the Fatigue score higher and the difference between Fatigue and Endurance higher. Realism and the LM will of course make on the spot rules and Traits may be used to justify some situations, but I was looking for any official approaches. If this has been covered elsewhere or if I have missed something in the books I apologize.

[aramis]

I've not seen one.

I have been reducing max end once Fatigue equals max end...

...but on writing it, I realized that that has a few issues; it's not quite mathematically the same as raising "Unconsciousness" from 0.

But, one could also require the player to discard some elements of his kit instead, so as to reduce total fatigue value.

So three possibilities arise to my mind as I consider this:

• Reduce maximum End
• Raise Unconsciousness point from 0
• Force the player to reduce to keep Fatigue at or below Maximum End

[Perdurabo]

Thanks for your reply Aramis. I have been thinking along those lines myself. It might actually be an idea to give players one of two choices when this happens:

1- Drop gear, but again not at a 1-1 encumberance drop, since the fatigue score isn't reduced as soon as one drops an item. I.e. if you drop an item worth 10 encuberance, you reduce fatigue by say 5, in the same manner as dropping a helmet during combat.

2- All excess fatigue over max endurance is applied as endurance loss.

[aramis]

1- Drop gear, but again not at a 1-1 encumberance drop, since the fatigue score isn't reduced as soon as one drops an item. I.e. if you drop an item worth 10 encuberance, you reduce fatigue by say 5, in the same manner as dropping a helmet during combat.

Since most fatigue is from travel, and dropping gear has effect the very next night's sleep, for 99% of cases, it's immediate.

I'd say that one could partially drop armor at 3 per die (armor is 4 per die as a general rule), but only armor would I impose such on, and only because, in the real world, one can partially strip armor,

[zedturtle]

I wouldn't do any additional penalty myself, being Weary even at full Endurance is it's own penalty.

I'm not sure that stripping down for combat is quite Tolkienesque.

[aramis]

I wouldn't do any additional penalty myself, being Weary even at full Endurance is it's own penalty.

I'm not sure that stripping down for combat is quite Tolkienesque.

We're not talking a penalty for Fatigue equal; we're talking "What to do when you take more fatigue after Fatigue = Max end"...

[Perdurabo]

In one of the first adventures I LM'ed I had a character with almost 30 points of fatigue over his max endurance (as a result of harsh terrain, winter, failed travel and hazards) His attitude was: "well, I'm weary anyway, won't bother using Hope for my next travel roll in the mountains during winter, what's three more points of fatigue anyway". Recovery wise, it will take longer but a fellowship phase or Years End will usually be sufficient. In some instances (short FP/YE) a character might start out weary in the next adventure, if the story dictates the pace. In most other cases the players will insist on resting during the FP/YE until they are fully healed and free from fatigue, which of course is the most logical thing to do since no one in their right mind would start a new adventure battered and weary from their last one unless as stated above, it is a story element.

[zedturtle]

I wouldn't do any additional penalty myself, being Weary even at full Endurance is it's own penalty.

I'm not sure that stripping down for combat is quite Tolkienesque.

We're not talking a penalty for Fatigue equal; we're talking "What to do when you take more fatigue after Fatigue = Max end"...

Right. And understood. My point was that Fatigue >= Endurance already has a penalty; that of being Weary no matter what.

If someone purpose-built a character designed for that (e.g. a dwarf with Stiff Neck since Weary won't affect the bonus) and constantly ran at Fatigue over Endurance, I might... might get upset with them. But then again, not really. They could choose to be more effective by changing their load-out. Their character, their choice. Of course I'd be mindful of what that Encumbrance meant when it came to Athletics and Steath tests.

[zedturtle]

And as Perdurabo points out, there are knock-on penalties... Fatigue tests are one guaranteed way to earn APs in almost every adventure but if you're starting super close to your Endurance total just by your gear then you're preventing yourself from earning them (since you won't/can't spend Hope to get the success and the AP).

[aramis]

And as Perdurabo points out, there are knock-on penalties... Fatigue tests are one guaranteed way to earn APs in almost every adventure but if you're starting super close to your Endurance total just by your gear then you're preventing yourself from earning them (since you won't/can't spend Hope to get the success and the AP).

the math doesn't work that way, Zed.

If you've got the dice to get those extra successes, odds are good that you've got the numbers as well to be in reach of Hope spend to succeed.

We're not talking merely Fatigue over CURRENT, but the guy who lets his fatigue exceed his maximum possible endurance.

I've seen several players who, once they're miserable, won't waste hope avoiding more. There is ZERO disincentive to avoid more fatigue once it exceeds maximum end - because there's no further penalty. And there SHOULD be one. Either forced abandonment of gear, or going unconscious easier.

The exhaustion penalty is not really that steep. (mathematically, it's going from 3.5 per die to 2.5 per die...), and has no effect upon the odds of rolling skill runes. At skill 3, the average roll is still within hope range (average being 10), so if they roll the 6's, they can hope to pass. And at 6d, the average is still 15... Yes, it sucks short term, but long term, it's pretty minor.