Where is TOR going?

[Finnian]

The One Ring came out in September 2011 for general release.

Since then five supplements have become generally available.

That's an average of roughly two supplements a year.

I bought the main box set as soon as it came out. I've not bothered to buy anything else because i'm yet to be convinced that the game is going to endure. Five books in nearly 2.5 years is a terrible release schedule for any RPG. Rivendell was forecast for 2013 and may or may not come out in 2014 (who knows). Other than that there are no other books on the release schedule (and 2014's release schedule is pretty much a copy of 2013 with the removal of Heart of the Wild).

In comparison, FFG who released Edge of Empire (Star Wars Licensed RPG) in 2013 have the same number of products out, with far more announced. AEG manage 4+ high quality L5R supplements per year, including a large box set last year etc. etc.

Supplements drive sales of the core book. It's a truism in the industry. While I don't expect TOR to hit anything close than MERP numbers of products, Cubicle 7 are choking their own sales with the glacial release schedule. At the rate it's going, the license will expire before scratching the surface (and I've heard several people speculate that the license was already lost because of the lack of releases).

It's quite possible that this is because sales are just too low. C7 have their Cthulhu Britannica Kickstarter (which annoyingly fell at the same time as my wedding so I couldn't get in on it) which will divert attention, together with a slew of other games (which some might say are all also in the same boat of having a slower than desired release schedule). However, for me personally, and for my group, until the game is decently supported (Rivendell!) I'm not going to pick up anything other than the existing core book I already have.

To make it clear, I think the game is a perfect marriage of Tolkien and rules, I feel the writing is superb and the art and design are in the top five of the industry. It's solely the lack of support (which I don't believe is down to slow licensor approval) which has stopped me from both buying more product and running the game.

[Shieldmaiden]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the level of support a game gets from its publisher has ever even occurred to me as an element in a purchasing decision. If I like a game, I buy the game and run the game. If a supplement comes out that I think will be useful, I buy the supplement. If the publisher folds tomorrow, it doesn't matter because I can still play the game.

It's not even like we wouldn't otherwise find out what Rivendell is like; the source material is already there.

[Beran]

I have to agree with most of what Finnian says. When TOR first came out I thought the slow pace was a case of teething pains that would, quickly, be over come and then supplements would be produced a pace. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. How long is the licence for? 10 years wasn't it? Yeah, I know the approval process moves slower then a BC glacier, but should that not have been dealt with before production started and a (relatively) quick process set up. He makes a good point about AEG and L5R they did 4+ supplements a year and not one of them was ever below excellent quality.

"Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the level of support a game gets from its publisher has ever even occurred to me as an element in a purchasing decision."

I waited until just recently to purchase most of the TOR material that has been put out by C7 to get an idea of where the game is going. And I still have to say I am not sure what is going to happen. I don't have figures to back it up, but I have seen where lack of material support has hurt lines in the past.

[Glorelendil]

Interesting responses; it never would have occurred to me to play or not play a game based on how many supplements come out. If I'm having fun with the game I'll keep playing it. (In any event, Darkening will last me years, I think...)

On the other hand, I do love it when new stuff comes out. Either new adventures to look forward to, or rule expansions that can be incorporated into current adventures.

[Finnian]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the level of support a game gets from its publisher has ever even occurred to me as an element in a purchasing decision. If I like a game, I buy the game and run the game. If a supplement comes out that I think will be useful, I buy the supplement. If the publisher folds tomorrow, it doesn't matter because I can still play the game.

While that's a great attitude for you, it's not the general attitude or the reality of the industry and sales/support. Supplements drive core book releases. Games that don't release supplements have less sales (overall and of the core rulebook) than those that do. Furthermore, as hinted at in my post, I don't think that the TOR core book is complete enough for the campaign I want to run.

It's not even like we wouldn't otherwise find out what Rivendell is like; the source material is already there.

I could readily create some Noldor or Dunedain rules, I can map Rivendell, Angmar, Moria, Beleriand or any other area I want, i can use all the original source and other game book sources I want. At the same time I could just create my own rules and do my own thing and never give C7 any money at all. The argument of 'you can just do it yourself', if taken to its logical conclusion, suggests no one should buy any licensed product. Or, indeed, any rpg product. Nor does it invalidate the glacial release schedule for TOR books. It's hurting the visibility of the line and for my group resulting in a half dozen people not buying the books. I could, for instance, simply use a.n.other system and my extensive MERP collection and original sources and run any game I want. However, multiple games offer me more game for less effort, thus I have far less incentive to run TOR and buy products for a line which is notable lacking (for me) in the supplements I'd like to see.

C7 announced Rivendell in March 2012, it's going to be well over 2 years (given it's not even hinted at coming out any time soon) by the time it gets released.

[Glorelendil]

I collected some of the MERP stuff back in the day, and because of my recent discovery of TOR I started re-reading a bunch of it. Not sure if my standards have changed in the interceding decades, or I'm just comparing to TOR, but I'm really disappointed in it. Sort of like seeing a movie that you loved as a kid and thinking, "This really isn't very good, is it?"

Maybe at the time I forgave them a lot of sins because it was MIDDLEFUCKINGEARTH!!!!!! And maybe I'm doing the same thing now with TOR.

What you say about the gaming industry may be true and that a lack of a steady stream of supplements will cause a death spiral: no revenue means no re-investment. But TOR feels different to me than any other RPG I've played or read. I'd love to see more material, but I also can't play very frequently, so if the pace continues to be glacial I will deal with it. I just hope glacial doesn't become stationary.

[Beran]

I don't know if it has anything to do with the release rate of supplements, but neither of the two game stores I frequent have stocked a lot of TOR material (one none and the other a couple of supplements here and there). I haven't seen a copy of the main rules in a store in my area since shortly after the game was released. I don't even think I saw it for sale at the last Con in Ottawa. Which means the last time I saw the rules for sale would have been Origins 2012.

[Glorelendil]

I don't know if it has anything to do with the release rate of supplements, but neither of the two game stores I frequent have stocked a lot of TOR material (one none and the other a couple of supplements here and there). I haven't seen a copy of the main rules in a store in my area since shortly after the game was released. I don't even think I saw it for sale at the last Con in Ottawa. Which means the last time I saw the rules for sale would have been Origins 2012.

I don't really stay on top of gaming anymore so I was oblivious to its launch. I discovered it very recently at a Barnes and Noble (Colorado, USA).

[Beran]

Personally, I like to have some idea that a publisher has some kind of long term plan for a system before I get invested in a game; especally one with any kind of meta plot. Nothing worse then getting into a game setting then have it suddenly disappear.

[Beran]

When TOR first came out it was well represented in my local stores, but since then it has dropped markedly.