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I've been thinking about the last few posts in this thread for a few hours. It occurred to me that those of us who want this game to thrive have an interest in evangelizing it. While pondering how to do that, it occurred to me that the audience for TOR books might be broader than gamers who like Tolkien; it might be Tolkien fans in general. That is, you don't have to actually play the game to enjoy reading the source books. They help bring nooks and crannies of Tolkien's world, areas that Tolkien himself left largely blank, to life.

I'm going to drop by my local Barnes & Noble, the one where I first saw TOR recently, and suggest that they take the game off the RPG shelf and put it with the Hobbit-themed end cap.

Maybe it's time to start haunting Tolkien fan sites, forums, and Facebook pages and telling people they should get TOR, even if they don't plan to play.

Hey guys (and gals), just remember a few things...

1) The One Ring is a top seller for Cubicle7 and they are completely committed to the game. Jon Hodgson has said this in the past and has not indicated anything has changed in this regard. C7 obviously loves the game and Tolkien. If we could see the actual sales figures, we might be impressed and less concerned about the issue of sales.

2) The One Ring is a licensed product. C7 can complete as much material as they wish behind-the-scenes, but they are at the mercy of Middle-earth Enterprises for approvals, etc. It appears they are also bound to say virtually nothing about these things. That is why Jon Hodgson has consistently said "as soon as we can share information, we will post it." I'm confident they would like to release material at a faster pace for many reasons, including increased sales and a larger fan base. However, it is what it is. My suspicions are that the fan base is already large enough to justify making the game. Each time they release a product, they make good money and they take what they can get. I would love to be a fly on the wall in their development meetings to know the real and full story.

3) News about the future of The One Ring should be coming soon. All indications are that this will be good and exciting news! Not the other way around. Think about it: Jon Hodgson is currently collecting quotes about The One Ring for promoting the game and for making a good impression on Sophisticated Games and Middle-earth Enterprises. He says it's important they know the game is well received.

Here's how I feel (and I don't believe I'm alone - I believe there are many who feel as I do): I have already purchased every TOR product so far, and I will purchase every future product, regardless of the release schedule. Each new book adds something wonderful to the game without overwhelming it. Actually, I'm kind of glad for the slower pace of releases for two reasons: 1) they have been high quality products, and 2) I've been able to keep up with the costs!!!

I am by no means trying to sound a doom sayer. But, there must be something going on when you can't find a copy of TOR on the shelves in all of a city the size of Ottawa. I am quite sure that it could be special ordered easily enough, what I will probably have to do once I get the opportunity. Next time I am in my friends shop in Kingston I have to ask what his opinion as a retailer is on the subject.

Beran wrote:I am by no means trying to sound a doom sayer. But, there must be something going on when you can't find a copy of TOR on the shelves in all of a city the size of Ottawa. I am quite sure that it could be special ordered easily enough, what I will probably have to do once I get the opportunity. Next time I am in my friends shop in Kingston I have to ask what his opinion as a retailer is on the subject.

I can't find any Ferraris at my local car dealers, either.

But, to buy a Ferrari one must go to a Ferrari dealership...not Bob's Car Lot.

You go to a games store you would expect to see a supply of a hugely popular game like TOR on the shelves.

I think my earlier post from page one warrants a repost:

Re: TOR in Barnes and Noble - great isn't it? That's the result of a lot of hard work. I'm not sure if I'm liberty to give thanks to the appropriate parties so I'll remain tight lipped, lest I say something I'm not supposed to. But it's very good news for TOR. Doctor Who Adventures in Time and Space is also being stocked by Barnes and Noble.

TOR has always been in hobby distribution. Naturally it's up to individual stores to decide whether to stock it or not, but the vast majority of sales of TOR (and other purely c7 titles) come from brick and mortar stores. Which is also good news.

More importantly: We'll have an update for 2014 releases this month. A few more bridges to cross before we can say any more.

Based on Jon's message you have to ask why are your FLGS/hobby stores not stocking TOR. Are they not getting orders fulfilled by the distributors and turning away fans who ask for it? Are they swayed by market reports put out by organisations based on self-reporting that put Pathfinder at the top of the pile? Are they a business that only stocks what they know will turn over quickly based on things like D&D Encounters and other store-based programs? Do they not stock Paizo products because their subscription program bypasses the FLGS?

Compared to many RPG publishers C7 have a significant presence across most forms of social media which I believe is a deliberate, and successful, marketing ploy. I see Jon popping up on FB, G+, various art sites, Twitter, in fact anywhere that he can slip in a mention of the good stuff to be had at C7. At least one recent member here mentioned they came across TOR pictures on an art site so it's definitely working.

For low budget advertising C7 are doing a great job with a minimal budget but enthusiastic advocates of their material pushing TOR and other games.

People posting here about long delays are talking out of their hat, to be polite. The average punter knows squat about the publishing business or licensing of IP from big names. They just think they know what they are spouting forth instead of STFU and enjoying what there is. If they honestly think that C7 are holding material up for some secret reason other than review by the licensor then I have a perfectly serviceable bridge I can sell them.

Should c7 go down the MERP road and start putting out material that is not properly approved they would find it so much easier to get slapped by M-e E with the ability of search engines to index the Internet. Remember ICE only got away with it because the Internet was less well indexed and M-e E were focussed on the LotR films and merchandising real money spinners. RPG's are such low producers of revenue that they normally barely register on the radar of the money-grubbing lawyers.

While we appreciate the chance to adventure in the Professor's world the Tolkien Estate are less about having fun and more about the literary analysis and promotion of JRRT as author. No doubt if he hadn't sold the rights to finance his US tax bill or children's education or whatever we might not have had the opportunity to play as Hobbits and Elves and Dwarfs in his imaginarium.

jamesrbrown wrote:Here's how I feel (and I don't believe I'm alone - I believe there are many who feel as I do): I have already purchased every TOR product so far, and I will purchase every future product, regardless of the release schedule. Each new book adds something wonderful to the game without overwhelming it. Actually, I'm kind of glad for the slower pace of releases for two reasons: 1) they have been high quality products, and 2) I've been able to keep up with the costs!!!

Completely agree with you James.

Hectic release schedules completely turn me off a game a lot of the time (I've walked away from product lines that have a treadmill approach to releases) and most of the people I game with are the same or don't buy anywhere near the full set of releases of a product line. I'd much rather see a few products of high quality rather than many of low(er) quality. Even if the TOR game line stopped publishing tomorrow or in the near future (which I personally know is not going to happen) then I'd have enough material to work with for years of weekly gaming.

Also, Middle Earth is exceptionally challenging to write for; other IP doesn't face anywhere near the same challenges - eg, Star Wars (and I love it) is far easier to produce material on, for instance. So when Jon and C7 talk about such things then they are pretty much making reference to Middle Earth solely and not to any other currently active RPG IP. It really is a breed apart from other game lines. Anyone that is suggesting this is a smoke screen to something else, frankly, needs to lay off the pipeweed.

Hermes Serpent wrote: People posting here about long delays are talking out of their hat, to be polite. The average punter knows squat about the publishing business or licensing of IP from big names. They just think they know what they are spouting forth instead of STFU and enjoying what there is. If they honestly think that C7 are holding material up for some secret reason other than review by the licensor then I have a perfectly serviceable bridge I can sell them.

I appreciate that the response to criticism of a slow release schedule, something i'm hardly alone in, is to 'STFU and enjoy what there is'. Instead I think i'll take a route that sees supporting games and companies with a better attitude and workflow to their products, as well as avoiding snide, derogatory comments from the misinformed. Given that I've been involved in just about every level of publishing, including RPG publishing, from small print houses to FTSE publishing houses and multi-million dollar publications, I think i'm actually rather better informed than you about what is and isn't 'normal' in this industry, or about publishing work-flow and project management.

I do have to thank you for one thing though, convincing me that I need not bother to check back month to month to see what's been released and whether to pick up the rest of the line.

Finnian wrote:Given that I've been involved in just about every level of publishing, including RPG publishing, from small print houses to FTSE publishing houses and multi-million dollar publications, I think i'm actually rather better informed than you about what is and isn't 'normal' in this industry, or about how publishing work-flow and project management.

Hi. Who are you, then? Always interested in RPG writers that post on forums as I like to know if I've read any of your work.