What is a "good road"?

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luizborges
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What is a "good road"?

Post by luizborges » Sun May 07, 2017 1:33 pm

I searched the forums, searched the books, but so far, haven't been able to find an example of what constitutes a good road for the purposes of calculating journey.
Elf-path is shown in Tales of Middle Earth as having a x3 multiplier, so it is out. What about the Old Forest Road?

Stormcrow
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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Stormcrow » Sun May 07, 2017 4:03 pm

It's not explained in the rules, but I believe a "good road" is one that is maintained in good order, giving the traveler a solid, stable surface. The elf-path isn't a good road because it's just a track over whatever terrain it covers. The Forest Road was once a good road, but since it was abandoned it has crumbled and no longer provides any benefit to travelers beyond a cleared path (and not even that at its eastern end). You won't get lost on most of the Forest Road, but neither will it speed your journey.

The road through Beorning country from the High Pass through the Old Ford and to the Forest Road is a good road, as is the Great West Road in Rohan, most likely. There are others; I won't list them all.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun May 07, 2017 4:28 pm

This subject was brought up not too long ago (in March) here.

The Great East/West Road is considered to be a good road. The Greenway/South Road might be, though the loss of the bridge at Tharbad requires a hazardous fording of the Greyflood.

There is a special rule for Mirkwood that states that any road or track through the Forest is counted as Severe terrain. Even if the old Dwarf-road was fully restored, I don't think it could be counted as a good road until the Fourth Age when the Forest was cleansed.

If the Old Forest Road has been restored in your game and you want to house-rule that it counts as an exception then:
  • Treat traveling through Western Mirkwood using the Old Forest Road with a modifier of x1.5.
  • Treat traveling past the Mountains of Mirkwood and through the Heart of Mirkwood on the Dwarf-road with a modifier of x2.5.
  • You might rule that this is the only road through MIrkwood where one might successfully attempt to ride a mount instead of being required to lead it, though I expect that suggestion to be contested.
Otherwise, treat the Old Forest Road as Severe terrain (modifier of x3), the same as any other path or road through Mirkwood.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Arthur Fisher
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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Arthur Fisher » Sun May 07, 2017 5:24 pm

I think the Old Dwarf Road can count as a good road as the idea of restoring it came after the notation about roads through the Mirkwood. But it should probably be commensurate with the difficulty in creating it. It takes a minimum of 5 Fellowship Phases to create it, but can take as many as you choose. If you want it to take more, you should probably have the benefit of the road be in line with how much effort your players were willing to put into it if you want them to build the road.
Or, if you don't like the idea of a road through the Mirkwood, you can have it take a lot of Fellowship Phases to create and still not provide anything more than "severe terrain" and your players probably won't bother with it then.
It all depends on what you want your players to do and what you want Middle Earth to look like.

If you're interested in building other roads, I made rules for herepaths here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0pnhf ... hLUEE/view

Otaku-sempai
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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun May 07, 2017 6:54 pm

Arthur Fisher wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 5:24 pm
I think the Old Dwarf Road can count as a good road as the idea of restoring it came after the notation about roads through the Mirkwood.
Okay. So after the Dwarf-road is restored, using it would entail traveling about 70 miles through Western Mirkwood at a modifier of x1.5 (5 days or more on foot), and say 140 miles through the Mountains/Heart of Mirkwood at a modifier of x.2.5 (about 18 days on foot, barring delays). Total travel time at least 23 days on foot, maybe longer if the eastern end of the road is re-routed to avoid the marshes.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Stormcrow
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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Stormcrow » Sun May 07, 2017 11:56 pm

Any track in Mirkwood counts as severe terrain, not because Mirkwood has an effect on roads, but because during the period of the game there are no good roads in Mirkwood. "We know you know there are roads in Mirkwood, but they're not good ones."

Otaku-sempai
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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon May 08, 2017 7:20 am

Stormcrow wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 11:56 pm
Any track in Mirkwood counts as severe terrain, not because Mirkwood has an effect on roads, but because during the period of the game there are no good roads in Mirkwood. "We know you know there are roads in Mirkwood, but they're not good ones."
Okay. I think, though, that my understanding of how to calculate a journey's duration is now accurate. Both the surrounding terrain and the effects of the road or path need to be included. A good example is given in the journey rules: taking the High Pass through the Misty Mountains (60 miles). The terrain of the mountains (Daunting; modifier of x5) would suggest a duration of 30 days; however, that is further modified by the path (counted as a good road; modifier of x0.5) to only 15 days.

EDIT: That 30 day figure is, of course, incorrect; I think I pulled it from memory. The correct figure is 15 days, meaning that the track through the pass could not possibly be counted as a 'good road' as a modifier that stacks with the previous one.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Mon May 08, 2017 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Stormcrow » Mon May 08, 2017 1:48 pm

Unless the Numenoreans cut a straight road through the mountains, no pass should be considered a good road.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon May 08, 2017 3:54 pm

Stormcrow wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 1:48 pm
Unless the Numenoreans cut a straight road through the mountains, no pass should be considered a good road.
Wait, I think I see my error:

Across the High Pass (Wild Land)
Sixty miles across mountain path (15 days of march)
- Speed of 20 miles per day on foot = 3 days.
- Modified by x5 for Daunting Terrain = 15 days.

No need for further modifiers; I have no idea how I came up with the previous figure of 30 days. There was a great deal of insistence in the previous thread that both the road (or path) and the terrain it passes through must be counted. That would work for the High Pass if the way is considered to be a well-trodden track or path (modifier of x1), but it doesn't really clarify the matter in this instance.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: What is a "good road"?

Post by Stormcrow » Mon May 08, 2017 5:09 pm

I'm not calculating from any listed journeys; I'm just thinking about what a "good road" is. A good road has to have an improvement over clear grassland, so it can't just be a dirt path. It has to be paved, or at least flattened. It can't turn to mud at the slightest rain. If it is paved, its paving stones can't be broken up or missing, as happens with an old, unmaintained road. It has to be relatively flat; any climbing to be done has to happen gradually.

Now think about the description of the passes over the Misty Mountains given to us by Tolkien. They're not like that at all. They're treacherous, exposed to the weather, old and unmaintained. They're not just easier ways over the mountains; they're the only ways over the mountains—you either take them or you go home.

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