Treasure 2.0

[Grey Seer]

OK,

So... I feel like I am a major expert now in how treasure and SoL interact

However, I have a clarifying question on just treasure itself. Outside of the temporary raising of SoL, it seems to me that treasure really is a "currency" designed for the fellowship phase. Is my assessment accurate?

It seems pretty much anything money wise you would care to mess with in the Adventure phase is handled by SoL.

[Otaku-sempai]

Yep. Treasure is the wealth your character accumulates while adventuring and has nothing to do with starting money (which TOR does not ordinarily track, using the Standard of Living mechanic instead).

Some (many?) treasure hoards have little in the way of actual coin, being largely composed of jewelry, gems and other precious objects as well as weapons and armor. You're correct, Treasure mostly comes into use during the Fellowship phase, though that also includes the option of using some of it to raise a hero's Standard of Living. So some of the Treasure is likely to end up in the character's purse.

If you do want to use more money in your game, here again is the conversion:

1 Treasure = 1 gold piece
1 gold piece = 20 silver pennies = 240 copper coins
1 silver penny = 12 copper coins

You might have some regions with locally produced coinage, perhaps made from tin, bronze, etc.; unless you are extremely detail-orientated that is probably more trouble than it would be worth. For some Middle-earth prices, check out the Lake-town Sourcebook and the Equipment section of the Adventures in Middle-earth Player's Guide.

Converting from D&D prices is a little more tricky, but a few folks here have developed formulas for doing so.

[Majestic]

I'm extremely detail-oriented, but my preference (in most RPGs, really) is to rarely involve money/treasure, unless it is warranted for a particular story.

I can't even recall Standard of Living coming up much (if at all), as if you've got somebody in the party who can cover costs it's usually enough for them to get what they're after.

Even in traditional D&D, soon after you begin the PCs often all have enough gold to buy an entire kingdom.

[atgxtg]

Even in traditional D&D, soon after you begin the PCs often all have enough gold to buy an entire kingdom.

And how. Typically, when I really wanted to mess with the PCs, I'd just start dealing with the logistical aspects of D&D currency-especially in AD&D, where ten gold pieces weighed one pound. For the PCs to be able to purchase some enchanted items often lead to the need for tons of gold (20,000 GP = 1 ton), and for some way to transport it.

[Stormcrow]

The sheer bulk of coinage was intended to be a hindrance in earlier forms of D&D. Gygax included piles and piles of copper pieces because if you wanted them you had to find a way to transport them, and they wouldn't be very useful except in great quantities.

This doesn't apply at all to The One Ring, in which not only is Treasure abstracted away, but Treasure of bulk equal to a mere buckler is enough to live on for a month at a Prosperous level. Treasure hoards like those of Smaug or Glaurung simply don't exist in D&D. Ironically, the sheer bulk of the hoard of Smaug becomes a serious problem in The Hobbit, which in TOR comes to the bulk of 100,000 bucklers.

TOR makes a difference between "money" and "Treasure." The Lake-town supplement gives a conversion between money and Treasure, restated above by Otaku-sempai, but they're still not the same thing. Money is used to buy stuff during the Adventuring phase, while Treasure is used during the Fellowship phase for either improving your Standard of Living or raising or maintaining your Standing. Raising your Standing is by far the biggest Treasure sink in the game, and it's the main point of having Treasure. Even then, the most Treasure you could ever spend at one time is 252 points, going from Standing 0 to Standing 6 in one Fellowship phase. That's about half of all the Treasure Bilbo brought home with him in two chests on one pony.

[atgxtg]

The sheer bulk of coinage was intended to be a hindrance in earlier forms of D&D. Gygax included piles and piles of copper pieces because if you wanted them you had to find a way to transport them, and they wouldn't be very useful except in great quantities.

It didn't really work out that way though. Most groups wound up with a bad of holding or two, or the DM would just ignore the whole logistical side of things.

This doesn't apply at all to The One Ring, in which not only is Treasure abstracted away, but Treasure of bulk equal to a mere buckler is enough to live on for a month at a Prosperous level.

And that is still quite inflated compared to historical values, and probably to the Middle Earth books as well. But at least you don't need to lug around a couple of pounds of gold to get a shave and a haircut.

Treasure hoards like those of Smaug or Glaurung simply don't exist in D&D. Ironically, the sheer bulk of the hoard of Smaug becomes a serious problem in The Hobbit, which in TOR comes to the bulk of 100,000 bucklers.

Oh, I think there were a few adventures that had those kinds of hoards. They just didn't have the same purchasing power in D&D. In AD&D terms, you probably needed a hoard larger than Smaug's just to be able to afford the pack horse team required to transport Smaug's hoard back home.

[ThrorII]

For TOR, I've always seen 'Standard of Living' as your pocket money, while Treasure points were 'potential money' and gifts.

For example, A Standard of Living allows for a certain amount of buying power--essentially an estimate of the amount of coin in your pocket.

Treasure, on the other hand, is bulk goods (with some coin). Treasure can be given away (a gift economy) to raise your Standing amongst others. Treasure can also be converted to coin (sold) to increase your buying power, increasing your Standard of Living. Those are two very different things.

In a gift economy, giving coins (essentially buying friends) is considered boorish and unclassy. But giving nice golden objects, art, etc. is a way to show loyalty and friendship. Hence the reason Treasure is used to Raise Standing

But, you really don't want to give a Treasure point away, just for a bed at the Prancing Pony. Perhaps Butterbur doesn't have a need for that Gondolin ceramic vase you found in a Goblin hole, he wants silver pennies, which allow him to buy goods. That is why you have a Standard of Living.

Example: While adventuring, a Woodman of Wilderland (with Frugal Standard of Living) finds Treasures in a Goblin hole. He decides to gift some to his clan elders (undertaking: Raise Standing), as well as convert some of his new wealth to coin, choosing to raise his Standard of Living to Prosperous for the next season (3 months).