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Scafloc wrote:I've been following the discussions on these forums for years and I have to say, this is a strange topic to argue about. If no one knows for sure, isn't it up to individual loremasters to decide whether or not all nazgul carry morgul-knives, blades and forks(!) in their game?

Yes, absolutely. And yet people insist on not just putting forth their opinion, but doing so angrily and denigrating people who disagree.

EDIT: And furthermore, Tolkien's precise words are of interest, but I for one am going to prioritize fun over the Tolkien Gospel (in this case they happen to coincide, but still...)

Gandalf's recognition that the Morgul-knife is not a unique artifact argues that the Witch-king need not be the only Nazgul to possess one. The fact that such a weapon can be used to create lesser wraiths (what would they be called in Black Speech?*) makes me want at least the Lieutenant of Dol Guldur to have one. It does not seem too unlikely to me that there could have been one or more lesser wraiths in Dol Guldur serving the three Nazgul stationed there.

* Snaggul (slave-wraith)? Krimpgul (bound-wraith)?

Snaggul sounds nice. The idea has story potential, so fire away, I say.

We could also shake things up and introduce non-canon Morgul-arrowheads. Imagine an assassin having one or two of those.

Yusei wrote:We could also shake things up and introduce non-canon Morgul-arrowheads. Imagine an assassin having one or two of those.

A descendant of Eol dual wielding hand crossbows with Morgul-arrowhead?

...

Sorry....got carried away there.

Elfcrusher wrote:EDIT: And furthermore, Tolkien's precise words are of interest, but I for one am going to prioritize fun over the Tolkien Gospel (in this case they happen to coincide, but still...)

I don't think anyone has stated that you shouldn't have they? ... Haven't people just challenged others that stated Tolkien did or didn't state things and requested sources and clarifications? I've not read anything challenging peoples' fun.

Yusei wrote:We could also shake things up and introduce non-canon Morgul-arrowheads. Imagine an assassin having one or two of those.

Your saga, your rules. Not In my table, though. This smells of other settings to me, not the flavor of ME. Not my own ME, at least

I have been on the forum since the beginning, posted occasionally, contributed here and there, but mostly followed the lively discussions. Occasionally aired my campaign ideas or jumped in on a project, you know...? What's always astounds is the quality of the exchanges. It seems to me that this relies on the forum's 'tendendency' towards a place of respectful and creative engagement. This kind of conversation is part and parcel to the game and it's wellspring I might add in my opinion.

A player looking for ideas based solidly in Tolkien's myth and language, often finds great speculation, scholarship, or creative interpolation to harvest for their own.

Those looking for ideas that enhance playability and emphasize the fun of gaming, they find a wealth of house rules, play experience, or simply affirmation against the tide of Tolkien 'scholars' with opinions.

For those looking to emulate Peter Jackson and pay homage to the cinematic interpretation of sensational combat and wholesale reworking of the orginal story, they find grist for the mill here as well.

Me personally, I hope it continues to be just that...a place where a "Morgul-blade" can be discussed, taken apart by those with shelves full of Tolkien works, embellished by those with even greater libraries of imagination, or given a sanity check by those with a simple humility that doesn't need to make better what is already one of the most potent mythologies of our world. (Hesiod would probably die to have Tolkien's following and formative impact on culture and society...!)

But then again what do I know...? I left the latest Hobbit movie throughghly entertained but ranting for hours afterwards about the abuse...the Tolkien Estate isn't suing for enough money! And, it was a well done movie! My wife tires of hearing me go on about it, so if the forum loses that place of open exchange...I really will be left in the cold!

Just another two cents thrown in with the grist. (Hopefully it doesn't screeched the mill to a halt in an outrage of abused machinery...!)

On the uniqueness of the Witch-king's Morgul-knife:

If the one that stabbed Frodo were the only one, how could Aragorn, Glorfindel, Gandalf, and Elrond know what it would do? It was certainly a one-use item in that case. Now, perhaps you could argue that normally the knife isn't supposed to break, and each stab into the heart causes its victim to become a wraith; in that case it is possible that the knife had been used before and those people knew of its effects. However, the characters who talk about it consistently call it "a" Morgul-knife, not "the" Morgul-knife. Tolkien wasn't explicit about it, but it seems obvious to me that the Witch-king's knife wasn't a fabled blade, but one of a class whose effects were known to the Wise.

On the weapons of the Nazgûl:

Why the heck would the Nazgûl want every stab of their weapons to create a wraith-slave? That'd be silly; they don't operate like that. No, I think the Lord of the Nazgûl had the only Morgul-knife of the Nine, and he only wanted to use it on the Ring-bearer to gain the Ring and to let Sauron torment him for trying to keep it.

Boromir was killed by a Morgul-knife. In the appendices from LotR we see:
"In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of
Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor (after
whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath
was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. Boromir
was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him. He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in
body and in will, but he received a Morgul-wound in that war which shortened his days, and he became
shrunken with pain and died twelve year after his father. "

Based on canon the weapon seems to be a sorcerous blade that disappears in smoke when taken from it's owner but the rune engraved hilt still has some unknown power. The power of the blade is to create some kind of debilitating wound that when it finally kills the victim causes his soul? to come under the control of the wielder of the morgul -knife.

There are just two instances of the use of a morgul blade and the fate of Boromir is obviously on the mind of Aragorn when seeing the blade disappear. I'm sure that Gandalf must know of the kinds of sorcerous implement capable of being made by Sauron and a description of the blade and the hilt, it's disappearance and effect on Frodo points directly at the old story of Boromir.

Perhaps that Boromir has become one of the Nine or a similar, but less powerful, wraith?

The ritual to create such a weapon may involve pouring some part of the wielder's soul into the sorcery to have the effect of controlling the Morgul-wraith.