So! What's going on with TOR?

[Otaku-sempai]

Can we remember that this is a thread started by Jon to communicate that TOR is still much loved and there's loads going on regarding it so not to worry? I mean, do we really need to disect each other posts with regard to whether a Balrog has real wings, imagined, shadowed, or none at all?

He obviously has a big cloak that he spreads to glide around on, and cast eerie shadows, a la Batman.

I do wish that this side-topic had been moved to a separate thread! Perhaps we can do that if anyone wants to continue it? Personally, I don't see much reason to revisit the topic for the time being.

[Stormcrow]

EDIT: Sorry if I'm getting increasingly snarky but this whole "there is only one correct way to interpret this" is just obnoxious.

You're the only one here demanding proof and accusing people of forcing their own interpretations on people as fact. Everyone else is just pointing to what they consider supporting evidence of their viewpoint. All I did was quote the two times the word wings was used in the Balrog scene and label one a simile and the other a metaphor.

[Glorelendil]

EDIT: Sorry if I'm getting increasingly snarky but this whole "there is only one correct way to interpret this" is just obnoxious.

You're the only one here demanding proof and accusing people of forcing their own interpretations on people as fact. Everyone else is just pointing to what they consider supporting evidence of their viewpoint. All I did was quote the two times the word wings was used in the Balrog scene and label one a simile and the other a metaphor.

Nothing I could say right now would lower the temperature so I'm going to step out.

[poosticks7]

The secret Balrog of the Wetwang doesn't have wings, or does he...? Water wings, hmmm.

[cuthalion]

So it isn't lost on us that every time we mention the 5e conversion of TOR we get a raft of concerned replies, some polite and measured, some downright rude, about why there aren't more announcements for TOR.

As ever, late to the party, but just want to register a vote of support, for what it's worth.

This ^^ (the rude replies) totally sucks--and I'm sure it's hard to remember when you're on the receiving end, but those making snipy, impatient comments are only a small fraction of those who enjoy all the work you guys put into the TOR line. I'm just slowly making my way through Bree and appreciating all the reverence for the source material, savvy design, SPOT ON writing, BEAUTIFUL art, and overall craft that goes into EACH AND EVERY addition to the line.

It's hard, today, with the kind of culture that surrounds games/companies/releases. With the information we have at our fingertips, compared to times past, it's hard not to get caught up in forecasting. I admit I get a little impatient sometimes. I guess I can try understand that these folks are just excited, and probably well meaning, in their own way. But for the record, there's no way you ought to be on here justifying what you are or aren't working on.

Do know that when you do post that reveal of what's coming up, or get to a pre-order, or a release, or a book arrives at the door, it's like christmas--better, as close as it gets to reading your favourite parts of FoTR for the first time again ( ). And that, I'm pretty sure, is what you're all about--and what we're all, if we know how to say it or not, incredibly grateful for.

With thanks for all the hard work and dedication,
--c

[Lorimez]

Can we remember that this is a thread started by Jon to communicate that TOR is still much loved and there's loads going on regarding it so not to worry? I mean, do we really need to disect each other posts with regard to whether a Balrog has real wings, imagined, shadowed, or none at all?

He obviously has a big cloak that he spreads to glide around on, and cast eerie shadows, a la Batman.

I do wish that this side-topic had been moved to a separate thread! Perhaps we can do that if anyone wants to continue it? Personally, I don't see much reason to revisit the topic for the time being.

I would quite agree. I'd like this to remain on topic and be focused around what we think might be happening or even a thread about what we'd love to see.

Regards

[SurrenderMonkey]

People seem to be mostly discussing the possibility of Lorien, Moria, and Misty Mountains material as separate supplements, but I would favor a single book, maybe simply called "Moria." In my perfect world, the MM material would focus on exploring the "underworld" of the mountains, which hasn't exactly received exhaustive treatment, while the Lorien material would give you a sanctuary and heroic culture, as per the normal format of the large regional supplements.

This seems reasonable since Lorien occupies the only substantial strip of the upper Anduin Vales that hasn't been covered in another supplement, right? It's also thematically linked to Moria in a compelling way. I'm really hoping they will do something along these lines because a focused Lorien supplement would occupy a place somewhere near the bottom of my wish list, but I would still like to see it covered for the sake of completeness (and it's pretty obvious they intend to do so one way or another).

[Otaku-sempai]

...Lorien occupies the only substantial strip of the upper Anduin Vales that hasn't been covered in another supplement, right?

No, not really; the Upper Vales of the Anduin are hundreds of miles to the north. Lórien is situated to the west of Southern Mirkwood and is bordered by the regions of: Dimrill Dale; the West Nether Vales (The Heart of the Wild) including the Lady's Garden; the East Nether Vales (HotW); the Brown Lands (just barely); the Field of Celebrant (Horse-lords of Rohan); and, the Grey Meadows. Only three of those areas haven't been covered to some extent; and even then, the Brown Lands are touched upon in Journeys & Maps.

It's also thematically linked to Moria in a compelling way.

Yes, in that Moria and Lóthlorien neighbor each other; though I'm not sure that they are otherwise thematically linked. Khazad-dûm is a lost kingdom fallen to an ancient evil, while Lórien is a protected realm that mostly keeps isolated from the rest of Middle-earth. Balin's attempt to reclaim Moria fails mysteriously after only a few years (in canon), making it difficult to work into a broader campaign. Nonetheless, it might make sense to cover both Moria and Lórien in a single region guide.

[SurrenderMonkey]

Yes, in that Moria and Lóthlorien neighbor each other; though I'm not sure that they are otherwise thematically linked. Khazad-dûm is a lost kingdom fallen to an ancient evil, while Lórien is a protected realm that mostly keeps isolated from the rest of Middle-earth. Balin's attempt to reclaim Moria fails mysteriously after only a few years (in canon), making it difficult to work into a broader campaign.

By "thematically" linked I meant that readers of the LotR would associate the two locales based on the events of the book, but I definitely take your point about the difficulty of linking them for purposes of a campaign.

BTW, when I referred to the "Upper Vales" I meant the entire Nan Anduin north of the Falls of Rauros. I forget that TOR does very specifically define them as occupying the area just south of the "Vales of Gundabad", so my fault for introducing confusion there. Also, until I read your comments I had totally forgotten about the Grey Meadows (!) and wasn't really thinking about the Brown Lands. It does seem like my hypothetical Moria supplement could easily cover Lorien and the Grey Meadows (and Dimrill Dale, obviously), but then it's interesting to speculate how the Brown Lands get covered. Maybe you bundle them with Dagorlad, Eastern Rhovanion, Emyn Muil, etc?

Anyway... that Moria/Dimrill Dale/Lorien/Grey Meadows gap is just right there in the middle of everything, and is definitely the "patch of midnight" on the map that I most urgently want cleared away!

[Otaku-sempai]

Frankly, I'm surprised that The Heart of the Wild didn't at least touch upon the Brown Lands since they do border Southern Mirkwood. The region covers a large area but is also pretty desolate. It could possibly be covered by a future region book for Mordor.