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Glorelendil wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:56 pm

And thus even more rare/extreme?

Or else just a fact of a harsher lifestyle.

Stormcrow wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:27 pm

Glorelendil wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:56 pm

And thus even more rare/extreme?

Or else just a fact of a harsher lifestyle.

Now I'm envisioning a Hobbit Althing of Anduin Vales.

Stormcrow wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:56 pm

Glorelendil wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:46 am

Regarding the question of how similar wild hobbits and shire hobbits are (in other words, would the "driving out" of a fellow hobbit be as unlikely among wild hobbits as we would assume it would be in the shire), it's worth noting that Gandalf was struck by the similarities between Gollum and Bilbo, despite hundreds of years of corruption of the former.

That's a good point, and the corruption of Gollum isn't even really much of a factor here, since the similarities Gandalf notes are cultural in nature. I would guess, though, that banishment from one's home among "wild" (i.e., relatively uncivilized) hobbits to be a much more severe punishment than a similar banishment in the civilized Shire.

I would think just the opposite. It would seem to be it would induce much more of a culture shock, being banished from the much more 'civilized' Shire, than from the less-civilized Wild Hobbits.

Majestic wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:01 pm

I would think just the opposite. It would seem to be it would induce much more of a culture shock, being banished from the much more 'civilized' Shire, than from the less-civilized Wild Hobbits.

The question is not its effect on the one banished, but on the society that banished him. Does banishment for being a hateful jerk lead to becoming legendary?

Stormcrow wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:06 pm

Majestic wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:01 pm

I would think just the opposite. It would seem to be it would induce much more of a culture shock, being banished from the much more 'civilized' Shire, than from the less-civilized Wild Hobbits.

The question is not its effect on the one banished, but on the society that banished him. Does banishment for being a hateful jerk lead to becoming legendary?

Ah, I see what you mean now.

Although I can't resist engaging in interpretive speculation, I'll stick to my earlier assertion: if you love the idea it's easy to rationalize it without contradicting canon, and if you hate the idea it's still just as easy.

Otaku-sempai wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:20 pm

Well, I opened up The Fellowship of the Ring to where Gandalf tells Frodo what he learned of Gollum's past. I don't see any implication there that Sméagol's folk ever suspected him of murdering Déagol or anyone else. If anyone had guessed then Gandalf did not speak of it.

Smeagol and Deagol used to go everywhere together. One day only Smeagol came back, and afterwards started acting much more sneaky and sinister. Imho, the other hobbits would have to be pretty dense not to make a connection, even if it was only well after the fact.

Even if never proven, the suspicion if murder and general infamy of Smeagol might live on and grow in the telling. Hobbit on hobbit violence is probably not common even in the Wild Hobbit community. It's nowhere near conclusive but to me it seems reasonable, especially if something that looks like a hobbit-vampire is roaming about murdering things lately.

Deaghaidh wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:10 am

Even if never proven, the suspicion if murder and general infamy of Smeagol might live on and grow in the telling. Hobbit on hobbit violence is probably not common even in the Wild Hobbit community. It's nowhere near conclusive but to me it seems reasonable, especially if something that looks like a hobbit-vampire is roaming about murdering things lately.

Possibly, but those recent events were happening around Lake-town and Dale, far from the banks of the Anduin. I wonder if the Wild Hobbits would have even heard about them.

It must have some importance for Hobbit to bannish one of their kin, for Gandalf to learn the fate of Gollum/Smeagol century later.

@Otaku Sempai

These events may well have happened around Laketown and Dale as well, but there is certainly evidence of them occurring in the western vales.


'Then why didn't he track Bilbo further?' asked Frodo. 'Why didn't he come to the Shire?' ...

'I think Gollum tried to. He set out and came back westward, as far as the Great River. But then he turned aside. He was not daunted by the distance.... No, something else drew him away. ...

'The Wood-elves tracked him first, an easy task for them, for his trail was still fresh then. Through Mirkwood and back again it led them.... The wood was full of the rumour of him, dreadful tales even among beasts and birds. The Woodmen said that there was some new terror abroad, a ghost that drank blood. It climbed trees to find nests; it crept into holes to find the young; it slipped through windows to find cradles.

'But at the western edge of Mirkwood the trail turned away. It wandered off southwards ... and was lost. And then I made a great mistake. ... I let him go ...

The Fellowship of the Ring, LoTR Book 1, Ch 2, The Shadow of the Past