forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

There are some great responses on here, but I noticed that no one mentioned The Tolkien Reader.

This contains wonderful stories, & in particular, demonstrates Tolkien's great sense of humor (which critics often overlook).

Andrew wrote:The place I've always overlooked is actually the Appendices for The Lord of the Rings - so much of the history and culture and so on is in there.

Absolutely. For information about the history, they're irreplaceable. In addition, if you're interested in the more complex details of Middle-earth they are far better and more informative than the main narrative. With a closer look you can also find quite a lot hints there that the Free Peoples were not always that "good", which makes them much more human and believable than many of the more archetypical characters from the main narrative(s).

Cheers
Tolwen

Tolwen wrote:

DavetheLost wrote:An example is the "problem" of the two Glorfindels. One Glorfindel is killed at Gondolin in the Silmarillion, the other rescues Frodo at the Ford in Lord of the Rings. The easiest solution to this is two elves named Glorfindel, but not everyone is satisfied by this.

Indeed. Like Tolkien himself

Cheers
Tolwen

This is one of those things that I never really understood, going by the appendix to the Lord of the Rings, there are several names that returns within the same household of population. Just for the sake of example Boromir was named after one of his ancestors, the same of his father Denetor (who was the third of that name along the line); among the royal house the swarves ther have been at least 7 Durin; Aragorn himself was, I think, the second to bear the name.
I know that, due to their immortality, elves are a pretty different beast but, considering that all the other peoples of Middle Earth have the habit of naming after famous ancestors, why should the elves differ?

Woodclaw wrote:I know that, due to their immortality, elves are a pretty different beast but, considering that all the other peoples of Middle Earth have the habit of naming after famous ancestors, why should the elves differ?

That's the point. In his "universe", Tolkien has defined that a peculiarity of the Eldar is that they don't "recycle" names of ancestors. Every one is singular. This paradigm caused Tolkien's problems and the way how he devised a solution to it.

Cheers
Tolwen

Woodclaw wrote: I know that, due to their immortality, elves are a pretty different beast but, considering that all the other peoples of Middle Earth have the habit of naming after famous ancestors, why should the elves differ?

It does sort of raise the question of how a race/culture of immortals doesn't run out of names.

re: the "Glorfindel Problem". It's a "meta problem", i.e. a problem only for readers who aren't clear whether it's the same person or not. I doubt the elves themselves would think of it as a problem.

Tolwen wrote:

Woodclaw wrote:I know that, due to their immortality, elves are a pretty different beast but, considering that all the other peoples of Middle Earth have the habit of naming after famous ancestors, why should the elves differ?

That's the point. In his "universe", Tolkien has defined that a peculiarity of the Eldar is that they don't "recycle" names of ancestors. Every one is singular. This paradigm caused Tolkien's problems and the way how he devised a solution to it.

Cheers
Tolwen

Oh, I didn't see this post. Where does Tolkien specify that? (Not being snarky; I'm not a Tolkien scholar to the extent many of you are.)

In addition to all the resources listed by previous post-ers:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

My absolute favorite web-resource for all-things Middle-Earth.

Elfcrusher wrote: Oh, I didn't see this post. Where does Tolkien specify that? (Not being snarky; I'm not a Tolkien scholar to the extent many of you are.)

My memory played a small trick on me. It is in the HoMe12. There is a section in Last Writings which covers the identities of the two Glorfindels. Tolkien does not say explicitly that the Eldar did never re-use names. He did state however that such a case was never recorded or happened and thus he - as the supposed discoverer - felt obliged to find a solution how the two could be the same person. It seemed that Tolkien never thought about simply changing one of the names (after all - it was his work as an author), but he thought about the matter and developed a solution that could make the two into the same person.
The whole passage is from the last year of his life, and so belongs to the collection of Middle-earth-related material that was most recent in development.

Cheers
Tolwen

Aiwendil wrote: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

didn't know, absolutely awesome, thanks

DavetheLost wrote:This there are many seeming contradictions between these two novels and the rest of Middle Earth lore. An example is the "problem" of the two Glorfindels. One Glorfindel is killed at Gondolin in the Silmarillion, the other rescues Frodo at the Ford in Lord of the Rings. The easiest solution to this is two elves named Glorfindel, but not everyone is satisfied by this.

The Tolkien Professor has a great lecture on this, and I like his conclusions. Simply put, since elves aren't meant to die, Glorfindel was allowed to return. If memory serves, the podcast/lecture title might be something like, "How to Kill a Balrog" (first, you have to be willing to die).

Stephen "Trotter"