Question regarding Training your Horses

[Otaku-sempai]

Horse-lords of Rohan introduced a new Fellowship Phase Undertaking: Train your Horses primarily for the Virtue Horse-herd of the Riddermark. Part of the description reads:

The training of a mount is accomplished as a prolonged action using the Craft skill, requiring a number of successes equal to twice the Status rating of the animal to be trained...

Does it make sense that some tinker's cart-horse can acquire an exceptional Quality such as Fearless, Fiery or Swift with a single successful Craft roll, while a mearh, the best of the best, requires twelve such successes? Is this broken? Somehow it seems to me that the procedure should be something like this: "The training of a mount is accomplished as a prolonged action using the Craft skill, requiring a number of successes equal to twelve minus the Status rating of the animal to be trained." This would reflect the superior quality and intelligence of horses of high Status.

Frankly, the ancillary rule about a mount losing a learned Quality if it is injured and having to re-train the horse to restore that same Quality is one I am likely to ignore as just plain stupid.

[Turin]

I agree on both counts.

I also allow for more qualities to be learned/trained of a higher status horse. So a warhorse can have more then a pack horse and a royal horse can have more then a warhorse.

[Otaku-sempai]

I also allow for more qualities to be learned/trained of a higher status horse. So a warhorse can have more then a pack horse and a royal horse can have more then a warhorse.

Interesting. I was going to guess one Quality for every two ranks of Status, but that would give the warhorse and the meara the same potential number of Qualities. Is your limit equal to the horse's Status?

The other related topic I've been thinking about is how to train a working animal (dog, horse, hawk, etc.) to perform additional actions or to give them 'tricks'. It might work much like training a Hound of Mirkwood, but it shouldn't ape the Virtue too closely. I'll move my preliminary work-up to the House Rules forum.

[Glorelendil]

Does it make sense that some tinker's cart-horse can acquire an exceptional Quality such as Fearless, Fiery or Swift with a single successful Craft roll, while a mearh, the best of the best, requires twelve such successes?

I think the logic is that any old animal trainer can successfully train a cart-horse, but only the most accomplished can successfully train a Mearh. If you've got skill of 5 or 6 you'll rack up 12 successes pretty quickly. Skill 2? Good luck with that...

Doesn't mean the system is perfect, but I think that's the intent.

[Turin]

Interesting. I was going to guess one Quality for every two ranks of Status, but that would give the warhorse and the meara the same potential number of Qualities. Is your limit equal to the horse's Status?

It is just status -2, with a minimum of 1.

Fine Bred Steed gets 2
Warhorse gets 3
Royal gets 4
Anything else just gets 1.

You can only train one per fellowship phase and I just require a single successful check. I didn’t find the qualities that powerful in my campaign.

[Otaku-sempai]

I think the logic is that any old animal trainer can successfully train a cart-horse, but only the most accomplished can successfully train a Mearh. If you've got skill of 5 or 6 you'll rack up 12 successes pretty quickly. Skill 2? Good luck with that...

Okay, but that still leaves the contradiction of it being easier to grant an exceptional Quality to horses of low Status. It just seems...odd.

[Stormcrow]

Diminishing returns.

[Yepesnopes]

Frankly, the ancillary rule about a mount losing a learned Quality if it is injured and having to re-train the horse to restore that same Quality is one I am likely to ignore as just plain stupid.

It may be not be the best rule, but in my opinion it is unfair to say it is "plain stupid".

I think it actually makes sense that at least some of the qualities may be lost due to an injury. Qualities such as Fearless, Proud, Strong, Sturdy, Surefooted, or Swift, may well be lost due to the physical or mental trauma a horse may suffer after a severe wound during combat. It also makes sense that the master /trainer must spend time training the horse, either physically or psychologically, so that the animal can regain what it once had.

[Otaku-sempai]

I think it actually makes sense that at least some of the qualities may be lost due to an injury. Qualities such as Fearless, Proud, Strong, Sturdy, Surefooted, or Swift, may well be lost due to the physical or mental trauma a horse may suffer after a severe wound during combat. It also makes sense that the master /trainer must spend time training the horse, either physically or psychologically, so that the animal can regain what it once had.

Maybe, though my wife's reaction was the same as my own. I think the problem is that we both are seeing such Qualities as something that the horse should be born with, not as something to be learned. Neither one of us thinks of such a Quality as the same thing as teaching the animal a 'trick' that allows it to support a Common Skill belonging to the Hero (such as keeping a rope taut or pulling a load backwards).