Basilisks in Middle-earth

[poosticks7]

There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the earth.

A slumbering creature in the depths of a orc warren in the Grey Mountain, that the orcs worship as a god.

A foul abomination that lent aid to the Witchking in his war against the North. Perhaps in the form of a withered witch. It now haunts long forgotten Carn Dum.

A terrible beast that even the dragons of the north fear, that resides in the Northern Wastes. Plotting and scheming for it's own ends.

A slithering doom that burrows in the deep deserts of Far Harad.

A vengeful demon that corrupts the minds of the occupants of a dwarven outpost in the Iron Hills.

These are all possible I think.

[DavetheLost]

"There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world that have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own. Some have been in this world longer than he." "There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world." Aragorn and Gandalf respectively in the Fellowship of the Ring

In the Book of Lost Tales 2, in the tale of Tinuviel and Beren, Melko's chief lieutenant was a cat of great size and cunning. This cat's captain was large enough for Beren to wear his pelt as a disguise. After the size and stature of the cats was reduced as a punishment by the Valar. However, wild cats such as Lynx and cougar, not to mention panthers, lions, and tigers might be possible in appropriate regions of Middle Earth. After all Sam thought Oiliphantd were made up until he saw one.

[DavetheLost]

According to Lost Tales, the Balrog's were even mightier than the Dragons.

As for the Necromancer, he has long been a strong point of evidence in favour of other non-Istari magic workers. The Council of the Wise did not immediately say "Hmm, Five wizards, all accounted for, Three bearers of the Elven Rings, check, Dwarf Rings, didn't give that sort of power, it must be Sauron or one of the Nazgul!" If it wasn't obvious to them, there must be other magic workers. Likewise Gandalf admonishing "Do not take me for some cheap conjuror of tricks!" Suggests that there were such about.

So, witches, sorcerers, and lesser necromancers are certainly possible as foes. I would keep the magic subtle in the Late Third Age, but it is possible.

[Hermes Serpent]

That would explain the pig-faced orcs much favoured by TSR and miniatures manufacturers of old.

[DavetheLost]

Hermes, great minds think alike! I always wondered where the pig-headed orcs came from.

[Elmoth]

Actually, FYI, porc is the Catalan word for pig, so not a stretch by any means Blame my claws for the typo.

[Tolwen]

Quite a sensible approach to The Necromancer here: it could be a powerful porc able to wield sorcery.

That could very well be the belief of local men outside DG (or he might be imagined as an evil mannish sorcerer).
The Wise however, seem to be very early convinced that this power is of another caliber. In Appendix B of the LotR it is said that already around TA 1100 they believe the evil power in DG to be a Nazgûl. And that is more than 1,800 years before the timeframe of TOR and only a few decades after Sauron made his abode there (the first signs of shadow are noted for TA 1050)!

Cheers
Tolwen

[DavetheLost]

So, the Wise aren't dumb, just lazy? Why else would they let a suspected Nazgul and self-identified Necromancer hang out in Dol Guldur for 1800 years before they finally get around to doing something about him?

[Tolwen]

So, the Wise aren't dumb, just lazy? Why else would they let a suspected Nazgul and self-identified Necromancer hang out in Dol Guldur for 1800 years before they finally get around to doing something about him?

Well, they were quicker than that - and the situation is (was) more complex than it looks at first glance. The Shadow on Green-/Mirkwood was not from the beginning as big and nasty as it is at the time of the Hobbit and TOR. This situation is the culmination of a long development and far from being universal in terms of strength, range and intensity.
It began slowly, probably locally and from there slowly spreading further out. According to Appendix B, around the time of the Great Plague (1st half of the 17th century) the Shadow in Mirkwood grew considerably deeper. In the reverse this means that before it was relatively light, and probably not beyond a local or regional level at most. At least not enough to think of more than a problem on the corresponding level.
In the 19th and 20th century the mishaps upon the Dúnedain accumulated in a manner that it was considered that there was more behind it than mere mannish greed and perhaps there was a unifying, overall mastermind behind all these troubles. After the major and urgent crises that needed immediate and focussed attention were over (fall of Arthedain and Angmar, fall of Moria, second and third Wainrider War, succession crisis in Gondor, fall of Minas Ithil), the Wise grew really worried about the matter and Gandalf went to Dol Guldur already in TA 2063. Then followed the Watchful Peace until TA 2460, the Balchoth War(s) and the trouble of the Longbeards with the Dragons. After all this was over and the Shadow in Mirkwood grew again, Gandalf made a second attempt in TA 2850 and confirmed that the necromancer was indeed Sauron.

IMO all this shows quite well that the Wise were not really dumb or idle, but misguided by Sauron's ruse. At first the Shadow was local, so that they saw no reason to intervene beyond a more or less regular watch. Later on, many troubles needed their attention and only after these were cleared, they gave more thought to the matter and investigated twice - with the second attempt successful.

We should be aware that we as readers of the LotR and all the other books have a much deeper, detailed and encompassing knowledge of events and their correlations than the people in the story who had to act and decide with much more limited knowledge and insight.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Mim]

Tolwen summarizes it well by noting that the Enemy beguiled or misled the Wise. In addition, Saruman's treason threw them off the track for a bit, so to speak.

Concerning adapting monsters for Middle-earth...

1. Recall the description of the Mouth of Sauron: ...But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenóreans; for they had established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron’s domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron and was more cruel than any orc.

This excerpt opens up a whole vista for you because you can potentially read that "he learned great sorcery" & that others may have existed besides the Nazgûl - "those that are named the Black Númenóreans."

2. I recently shared the link to a couple of articles in issues 15 & 16 of The Hall of Fire - http://halloffire.org/2005/page/2/ IMHO, she did a superb job on this subject, & permit me to share:

Every creature in Middle-earth has a purpose for being there. They don’t just exist to threaten the heroes or
make overland travel difficult. Monstrous and magical beasts are the unnatural creations of Morgoth or Sauron, left over from the Elder Days and somehow existing on into the present. Many monstrous beasts, such as the Wargs and the Black Horses, were once natural beasts that were reshaped with dark arts into loyal and ferocious servants. Other magical beasts arose in the First Age and were made all but extinct by the great heroes of that time. Those that survived slinked away into Middle-earth and hid themselves away from all sight. There they wait to perhaps be once more discovered by the heroes of the later ages.

Magical, slimy, tentacled, unnatural-looking things are usually First Age horrors. They are most often unique creatures, “the last of [their] kind to trouble the unhappy world” as was said of Shelob. The more unnatural and unwholesome a creature appears to be, the more likely it is that it is a holdover from the Elder Days and no more of its kind now live in Middle-earth. Likely, too, is the fact that they live deep underground or in enclaves of great evil and would take considerable effort to find or stumble across.

A lesser creature with few true magical powers and with a form that could be natural even if it isn’t should likely be the perverse work of Morgoth or Sauron. Remember that Sauron and Morgoth share the restriction that they cannot create new creatures: All they can do is twist and corrupt existing creatures. Before you select a monster to convert as a work of such perversion, look at its shape and ask these questions, “What was it created from? Why did Morgoth or Sauron bend/subjugate it? Why wasn’t it used in the War of the Ring?” If you can easily answer those questions, it’s likely that you have a good candidate for conversion.

These are great guidelines