Basilisks in Middle-earth

[Tolwen]

Tolwen summarizes it well by noting that the Enemy beguiled or misled the Wise. In addition, Saruman's treason threw them off the track for a bit, so to speak.

And Saruman became evil and greedy for the One only quite late, perhaps even after Sauron's cover was blown (or at the most a few decades before). According to Appendix B, Sauron's identity is exposed in TA 2850 and Saruman begins to search the Gladden Fields in secret for the One the year after that. Probably he has already been toying with the idea of getting the One for himself earlier. We have to remember that the very popular and lasting image of Saruman as an evil schemer and adversary of the Free Peoples is a relative recent phenomenon in the tale of years of the Third Age. For about 1,700 years he was a loyal, resourceful and steadfast ally of the Free People in their struggle against the Shadow! His tragedy began only quite late in his career. He took Isengard for himself in TA 2759 and at first he was probaly a loyal ally, turning to evil ideas sometime in - IMHO - later years of the second half of the 28th century TA.
The one instance where he actively deceives the Wise is when he presumes that he found out that the One had been flushed into the Sea. This happened at the last meeting of the white Council in TA 2953, more than 100 years after Sauron's identity as the Necromancer became known. I guess this is what you originally referred to when talking of Saruman's beguilment

Cheers
Tolwen

[Mim]

Yes, you're mostly correct in that I referred to your point about when Saruman overruled Gandalf's recommendation to attack Dol Guldur (2851), however; I also meant when Saruman discovered that Sauron's servants searched for The One in the Gladden Fields but did not inform the White Council (2939).

In retrospect, I probably should have explained that, but moved on because I wanted to talk about creating monsters for our games

[Jez]

Remember that Sauron and Morgoth share the restriction that they cannot create new creatures: All they can do is twist and corrupt existing creatures.

Curious where Dragons fit within this restriction; bred by Morgoth, what were they a corruption of?

[poosticks7]

Remember that Sauron and Morgoth share the restriction that they cannot create new creatures: All they can do is twist and corrupt existing creatures.

Curious where Dragons fit within this restriction; bred by Morgoth, what were they a corruption of?

Pigeons*

*Say so in the obscure book of Tolkien lore

[Jez]

I call fiddlesticks on that one.

If you said Giant Eagles though I think you might be on to something.

[Tolwen]

In retrospect, I probably should have explained that, but moved on because I wanted to talk about creating monsters for our games

Yes indeed. And as has been said already by others; IMO it is best to look to real-world myths (primarily european) for inspiration if one wants to have more fantastic creatures. They add more depth and "realism" (even if adapted and somehow changed) to Middle-earth than the host of synthetic monsters from DnD & Co.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Glorelendil]

In retrospect, I probably should have explained that, but moved on because I wanted to talk about creating monsters for our games

Yes indeed. And as has been said already by others; IMO it is best to look to real-world myths (primarily european) for inspiration if one wants to have more fantastic creatures. They add more depth and "realism" (even if adapted and somehow changed) to Middle-earth than the host of synthetic monsters from DnD & Co.

Cheers
Tolwen

Like Grendel?

[Tolwen]

Like Grendel?

Yes, Grendel is a good good example for a threatening creature. You only have to adapt the background and the nature of the creature so that it fits with Tolkien's cosmological ideas.

Cheers
Tolwen

[DavetheLost]

I think Grendel and his mother would fit very well in Middle Earth. Even his descent from the line of Caine should not be too large a stumbling block. Sauron seems a likely progenitor for such a line, perhaps mixed with Trollish blood? Grendel might even be some sort of troll-kind. The rest of the Beowulf legend would also fit well. Swimming with sea serpents, fighting dragons, the theft of Thror's Cup in the Hobbit is a direct parallel of the slave in Beowulf stealing a cup from a dragon's horde.

It is worth keeping in mind that by the end of the Third Age Middle Earth is an old, even an ancient, world. Many wondrous things have come and gone. The magic is slowly running out of the world. So beasts like Shelob, Smaug, and Durin's Bane, as well as the Fell Beast ridden by the Witch King are the last of their kind.

As for the Wise being too lazy to drive the Necromancer out of Mirkwood, that was meant tongue in cheek. Sauron had vacated Dol Guldor at least once previously to avoid identification. It is likely also that the blight falling over Mirkwood was not at first recognized, and when it was it may well have been thought of less significance than it was. There were distractions of Dragons and other weighty matters during those years as well. I can also see the Wise believing, perhaps with Sauruman's suggestion, that Sauron was so diminished in power as to no longer be a threat worth dealing with.

[Otaku-sempai]

Remember that Sauron and Morgoth share the restriction that they cannot create new creatures: All they can do is twist and corrupt existing creatures.

Curious where Dragons fit within this restriction; bred by Morgoth, what were they a corruption of?

Initially serpents, I would think, bred with other large reptiles. The wings of the winged dragons seem to be based on the wings of bats rather than birds.