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My group has not long started playing TOR and we are currently doing The Marsh Bell. I have some longer term plans that involves them becoming embroiled in the questionable works for a certain white wizard who is on the look out for artefacts (my group are scholars/treasure hunters). I have a gap in the plan though and am looking to fill it.

The plan is at the moment for when they return from The marsh Bell to have them welcomed into town as heroes for saving the dwarves before Gloin, the Master of Laketown and his beautiful young wife. Sometime afterwards the Master of Laketown will approach them and ask them to find something for him. He wants them to locate an outlaw who is hiding in the Vale of Gundabad or the Western Vales somewhere. The outlaw is wanted for murder of thee men in Laketown.

The back story is that the bandit is the older brother of the Master's wife. The brother and sister were orphaned when their parents were killed in Smaug's attack. They were from a well respected family who have long lived in Laketown. The brother had always been protective of the sister, and so when the Master (before he was Master maybe?) made approaches to her, the brother forebade it. The Master then arranged to have him "dealt with" but the brother ends up killing the three who were sent to kill him. He fled into the wild and now lives as an outlaw in the wild. He has gathered to himself a number of others who have also become outcasts from their various societies (for a number of reasons). The Master knows he is alive and wants to find his lair so he can send a bigger group to deal with him once and for all. He only wants the group to find him and tell the Master, although if they could kill him that might mean a bonus. The brother has no interest in returning to the town where his reputation is ruined, but would love to be reunited with his sister. The sister is not in love with the Master but is trapped in the relationship. The Master is keen on hiring the fellowship because they are not from around there and have no knowledge of the background of the individual they are locating.

So the plan would be for the fellowship to somehow locate the hidden outlaws, and to learn his side of the story. They are then faced with a dilemma - turn him, kill him or help him?

I need some ideas on what type of activities I could have them undertake to find clues that would lead them to the outlaws and to uncover the dirt on the Master and true history of the brother. I am up for any suggestions at all.

That is a dark turn you're taking with the new Master, especially after Balin had such nice things to say about him when he and Gandalf visited Bilbo (in the year 2949).

"The new Master is of wiser kind," said Balin, "and very popular, for, of course, he gets most of the credit for the present prosperity. They are making songs which say that in his day the rivers run with gold."

A reveal from the Lake-town Sourcebook was that the new Master was the guard who questioned Thorin and his companions at the Gate and escorted them to the old Master. Have you changed the identity of the new Master, or just played around with his personality?

I think that how the adventuring company deals with the bandit leader might depend on the actions of him and his band. Have they murdered folk? Are they seen as local folk-heroes (a la Robin Hood and his men)? If he has only killed in self-defense, he might be able to convince the company to side with him.

I don't have any sourcebooks so he is a creation of my own. I was assuming it was a position like mayor that might change every x years. Maybe this guy started out Ok but in time, power corrupts.

Essentially, yes, the Master is the Mayor of Esgaroth and we don't know how long his term is. We do know that one term for the Mayor of Michel Delving (the Mayor of the Shire) is seven years; and many of the traditions of the Hobbits date from when they dwelt in Rhovanion. I'm not sure what the year currently is in your campaign, but I doubt that the Master has yet needed to worry about re-election (we also don't know how the elections work in Lake-town--if every freeman gets a vote or if the Master is elected by the merchant houses).

OK lets assume he is voted on by the Merchant Houses.

We are at the Gathering of the Five Armies (2946) so that is 5 years since the new Master came to power. Gandalf's conversation with Bilbo is 3 years later so that would be 8 years since the new Master was elected.

Maybe a slight change in tack....maybe it isn't the Master of Laketown who is behind this character. Maybe it is some other powerful official - a sherrif of sorts who is abusing his power in ways that the Master is unaware of. They could be from Dale or Laketown.

I am thinking that the outlaw is held up in or near an old small dwarf hold in the vales, as two of my characters have a deep interest in dwarvish artefacts. The third character is a man of Rohan - effectively a skald from Fengel King's court sent to the Gathering of the Five Armies in place of the dottering old king in the south. His lure will be to explore the land of the Eorlings in the north.

Always happy to hear ideas....

The Master's wife did it.

(On the docks. With an oar.)

But, seriously, I have to admit my first reaction to reading your set-up was that the woman...once again...is just a powerless pawn. The "beautiful young wife" who "is not in love with the Master but is trapped in the relationship."

Maybe she's tired of being a 2nd class citizen and has her own ambitions. They seemed unattainable until one day, while out walking along the shore one evening, happened to meet a mysterious stranger. She never quite saw his face, and she felt cold while talking to him, but he made her a most intriguing offer....

Marrying the Master is just the first step in her plan. If only her damned brother hadn't tried to interfere.

Obadiah wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:18 am

OK lets assume he is voted on by the Merchant Houses.

We are at the Gathering of the Five Armies (2946) so that is 5 years since the new Master came to power. Gandalf's conversation with Bilbo is 3 years later so that would be 8 years since the new Master was elected.

Balin's Tale of the Old Master: The old Master had come to a bad end. Bard had given him much gold for the help of the Lake-people, but being of the kind that easily catches such disease he fell under the dragon-sickness, and took most of the gold and fled with it, and died of starvation in the Waste, deserted by his companions.

All this must have happened after Bilbo left for home with Gandalf, so say it was the year 2942. The new Master might have been the deputy of the old, so that his formal election might have taken place some time later--maybe even the same year as the Gathering of the Five Armies!

Maybe a slight change in tack....maybe it isn't the Master of Laketown who is behind this character. Maybe it is some other powerful official - a sherrif of sorts who is abusing his power in ways that the Master is unaware of. They could be from Dale or Laketown.

I am thinking that the outlaw is held up in or near an old small dwarf hold in the vales, as two of my characters have a deep interest in dwarvish artefacts. The third character is a man of Rohan - effectively a skald from Fengel King's court sent to the Gathering of the Five Armies in place of the dottering old king in the south. His lure will be to explore the land of the Eorlings in the north.

Always happy to hear ideas....

You do have some interesting ideas there. Whether the real villain is the Master or someone else, I would probably keep him (her?) based in Lake-town rather than Dale. Glorelendil's suggestion of making the wife an ambitious social-climber possibly being manipulated by someone behind the scenes has merit.

King Fengel might be many things in 2946--greedy, quarrelsome, gluttonous, and unpopular outside of his inner circle of cronies--but I'm not sure about doddering. He is in his last years of life though, passing in 2953 in his eighty-third year, so his mental state could be beginning to deteriorate.

Obadiah wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:47 am

The plan is at the moment for when they return from The marsh Bell to have them welcomed into town as heroes for saving the dwarves

I wouldn't overplay the hero's welcome. Balin and Ori are important dwarves in Erebor, and they're certain to be respected in Lake-town, but the Men of the Lake aren't going to throw a feast in honor of their rescuers. But it would serve your plot just as well if the dwarves and the important men of Lake-town quietly acknowledge and reward the rescue, and then later ask them for more help on the next adventure.

He wants them to locate an outlaw who is hiding in the Vale of Gundabad or the Western Vales somewhere. The outlaw is wanted for murder of thee men in Laketown.

That seems like an awfully long way to go to escape the local authorities of Lake-town.

Otaku-sempai wrote: Essentially, yes, the Master is the Mayor of Esgaroth and we don't know how long his term is. We do know that one term for the Mayor of Michel Delving (the Mayor of the Shire) is seven years; and many of the traditions of the Hobbits date from when they dwelt in Rhovanion.

There is no reason at all to think that you can extrapolate the selection of the Master of Lake-town, a job that apparently involves managing a lot of commerce, with the election of the Mayor of Michel Delving, whose sole responsibility is presiding over banquets. We don't know how the Master is chosen or how long he serves, so Obadiah may as well make up anything he likes. I happen to favor the idea that he is selected by the heads of various guilds or merchant houses, but that the position is probably long-term or for life, giving the Master the singular stature he seems to have in The Hobbit, rather than being pushed around by the merchants.

King Fengel might be many things in 2946--greedy, quarrelsome, gluttonous, and unpopular outside of his inner circle of cronies--but I'm not sure about doddering. He is in his last years of life though, passing in 2953 in his eighty-third year, so his mental state could be beginning to deteriorate.

Obadiah is not working out of any of the source books, so he's making stuff up himself. His Fengel might well be doddering.

Stormcrow wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:49 pm

There is no reason at all to think that you can extrapolate the selection of the Master of Lake-town, a job that apparently involves managing a lot of commerce, with the election of the Mayor of Michel Delving, whose sole responsibility is presiding over banquets. We don't know how the Master is chosen or how long he serves, so Obadiah may as well make up anything he likes. I happen to favor the idea that he is selected by the heads of various guilds or merchant houses, but that the position is probably long-term or for life, giving the Master the singular stature he seems to have in The Hobbit, rather than being pushed around by the merchants.

I know; I'm only suggesting a seven-year term as one possibility. Tolkien, though, did seem to like using such cycles.

Obadiah is not working out of any of the source books, so he's making stuff up himself. His Fengel might well be doddering.

Oddly, I wasn't using any of the TOR sourcebooks either, but going solely by LotR Appendix A. I never double-checked to see how Horse-lords of Rohan characterizes Fengel during this period. I probably should have. I do believe that all sources agree that he was not a very good king.

Thanks for the input and the reminder to go back and refer to the source material.

OK so here is how I am thinking it is coming together.

Given the 3 years between this adventure and the conversation between Balin, Gandalf and Bilbo in The Hobbit, I am thinking that perhaps this is the original master from TH who is in the throws of his corruption discussed. This might just be final straw that leads to him fleeing with his gold.

I like the idea that the sister/wife is behind all of this somehow. She could well be feeding him the ideas to get rid of her brother. And just who is the mysterious figure who is advising her? I will have to ponder on that some more. But no doubt some subtle agent of the enemy just trying to corrupt the free people in more subtle ways.

Fengel is definitely starting to lose his mind, but at the moment he doesn't really come into the story except in the back story for one of the heroes. By the time he returns to Rohan, who knows where things might be at down there, but it is suffice to say that the hero is not in a rush to return to the service of a King he doesn't respect.

Assuming the Master asks them to do this for him (ie find the brother) and the fellowship head into the wilderness to find them. What could I do in the wilderness to help them locate the outlaws?

And then when they hear the brother's side of the story what kind of investigation could I lead them on to uncover the truth in his story? I want them to be faced with a choice in regards to who to believe and support.

Supporting the Master might manifest itself in handing over the location of the outlaws. The support for the brother might mean telling the master that they couldn't find him, but perhaps even a plot to uncover the corruption of the master himself leading to him fleeing town.

And what about clues to uncovering the sister?

I appreciate being able to bounce ideas of people for this