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Hello all,

A fellow player is considering buying this virtue, but he is afraid is totally broken. Has this already been discussed? I can not find it. Otherwise, what do you think? It seems a very easy way of getting a +3 - +4 on all common skill checks (but custom ones).

Cheers,
Yepes

It's pretty powerful, but it's also playing with fire. A player who takes this is incentivized to not lower their Shadow score when presented the opportunity (doing so makes it feel like you wasted a virtue). From there they have to either limit their Hope use more than others (to compensate for their high Shadow score) or risk being Miserable.

The player in my group who had this was the first to gain a permanent Shadow point.

Definitely agree with what Doc states above... The Virtue is playing with fire. One of my player's PCs has it but has faced real problems. Building his Shadow up he thought he was really benefiting, but then the Fellowship Pool got used up, he had to use some of his own Hope and picked up a couple more Shadow points later. He was very close to being Miserable and spent the rest of the adventure terrified and not being able to use any more Hope. First thing he did in the next Fellowship Phase was work off some of that Shadow.

It's a powerful Virtue, definitely, but unlike others it has some potentially character-destroying risks associated with it. For that reason, I think it is balanced.

I love this virtue. If I had to name a single bestest idea in TOR, it would be the stiff neck of the dwarves.

Seems we will have to try it. But from what you say, the problem may come from the way we play. We do not gain many shadow points per adventure (one or two max) neither we spend much hope (again one ore two).

Well if you do think your groups playstyle will effect the virtue you can either

1) Cut back on handing out hope.
As has been discussed elsewhere renewing the fellowship pool at thematically appropriate moments, rather than th end of each session. Look in Rich H's sdditional rules I think.

2) Caveat the Virtue
Require the shadow influence be role-played to get the bonus (potentially risking more shadow...)
or Reduce the players ability to replenish hope by taking the virtue

Obviously chat this through with the player

Because Hope is meant to be a dwindling resource, unless steps are taken to stop this, the virtue works. As it sounds like it's not a dwindling resource in your campaign edit the hope donations or the virtue

I would also add one note, Dwarves have generally the lowest Heart Attribute and Hope score among the playable Cultures, hence this is a very slippery slope.

No way, all of the above posts are wrong imho

One of the very best things about TOR imho is the beautiful interaction between Hope and Shadow. I love the concept of Blighted Places, the draconic lure of treasure, the soul sapping effect on your companions in seeing cradles rocking in the wind in a plague struck village, finding a once fair Elven glade defiled by greedy evil men, stumbling accross victims tortured by Orcs or devoured alive by Wargs etc etc. If your characters are not spending Hope, then put most bluntly, if also respectfully, you are simply not pushing them hard enough - add in extra adversaries or up power them. My companions dread their corruption tests (as LM I aim for at least 2 or 3 such tests each a session - which inspires me to ever come up with slightly more varied if horror loaded descriptions of the places and sights they encounter) and they have swiftly learnt not to waste Hope on gaining gamey Advancement Points, because the Shadow is always there, steadily eating away at them.

Do this and your players will ultimately thank you for it (much as they curse you under their breath) - particularly bold Sir Dwarf with his Stiff Neck.....!

cheers
Mark

Cawdorthane wrote:seeing cradles rocking in the wind in a plague struck village, finding a once fair Elven glade defiled by greedy evil men, stumbling accross victims tortured by Orcs or devoured alive by Wargs etc etc.

In Tolkien's works, you rarely see anything too gory, so I try to keep the same style in most of my games. This leaves plenty of opportunities for corruption tests, but not at the rate you'd find in a Call of Cthulhu game.

On the other hand, I've house-ruled that it's harder to get rid of shadow points.

Cawdorthane wrote:No way, all of the above posts are wrong imho

One of the very best things about TOR imho is the beautiful interaction between Hope and Shadow. I love the concept of Blighted Places, the draconic lure of treasure, the soul sapping effect on your companions in seeing cradles rocking in the wind in a plague struck village, finding a once fair Elven glade defiled by greedy evil men, stumbling accross victims tortured by Orcs or devoured alive by Wargs etc etc. If your characters are not spending Hope, then put most bluntly, if also respectfully, you are simply not pushing them hard enough - add in extra adversaries or up power them. My companions dread their corruption tests (as LM I aim for at least 2 or 3 such tests each a session - which inspires me to ever come up with slightly more varied if horror loaded descriptions of the places and sights they encounter) and they have swiftly learnt not to waste Hope on gaining gamey Advancement Points, because the Shadow is always there, steadily eating away at them.

Do this and your players will ultimately thank you for it (much as they curse you under their breath) - particularly bold Sir Dwarf with his Stiff Neck.....!

cheers
Mark

Wow and I though my vision of the Middle-Earth was a tad too gloomy. While I'm not completly against adding these kind of situations every once in a while, this level of dread and tension isn't what I'm looking for in my games. To be honest - albeit blunt - this narrative style seem more suited for Warhammer.