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Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:10 pm
by Otaku-sempai
Moria Firefly wrote:Wow, that would be so awesome but I know better then to hope. I just will imagine it for now. :)

MFF
Iron Crown published a detailed Moria suppliment for MERP (which was apparently expanded for the Citadel series of suppliments) that might do for now. Decipher released a boxed Moria set for its The Lord of the Rings RPG, but I have never seen it and don't know if it was very good.

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Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:51 pm
by Glorelendil
That thread where Francesco mentioned BtMoM got me thinking about how to make Moria work with TOR, and I've started sketching out an (epic?) adventure. I don't want it to be a "classic dungeon crawl" with every room and passage mapped out. I do want getting lost to be a major concern, though. So I'm working on Moria-specific rules that track two hidden (LM) numbers, temporarily named "sense of direction" and "distance off course", that rise and fall, and interrelate. So players might come across a way marker that resets both SoD and DoC, but then as they try to make their way through Moria to their next destination both numbers grow.

My goal is for the adventure to start off with players saying, "Oh, this is bad..." but every time they think it can't get worse, it does. Shadow points piling up, food & water running out, the way out less & less clear....

To avoid it being a pure dungeon crawl I'm working on a plot that involves a number of possible allies found in Moria. Some can be trusted, some can't.

I will post more later as I refine some of these ideas. Would love to get community feedback.

Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:16 pm
by trystero
Elfcrusher, I think the abstract mechanism you propose sounds great: it reminds me nicely of the "Lead" and "Allies in Battle" ad hoc rules used for pursuit and mass combat in parts of Tales from Wilderland, and as such feels like a good way for TOR to treat wanderings through Moria (or Goblin-gate).

Would you need two separate ratings to track? Might it be easier to just have a single "Lostness" rating that rises as the company falls away from its intended route or direction of travel? You mention both numbers rising as the group wanders: are there situations where only one number or the other would increase?

And would these ratings interact with regular journey Hazards at all? I'd almost be inclined to have "Lostness" add to the Hazard trigger number (so that with Lostness 1, any failed Travel roll showing the Eye or a 1 on the Feat die triggers a Hazard episode), though that might be too punitive.

Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:19 pm
by Woodclaw
Otaku-sempai wrote:Iron Crown published a detailed Moria suppliment for MERP (which was apparently expanded for the Citadel series of suppliments) that might do for now. Decipher released a boxed Moria set for its The Lord of the Rings RPG, but I have never seen it and don't know if it was very good.

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The Decipher's Moria was a decent supplement in my opinion. Personally I was more interested into the rules to differentiate the 7 houses of the dwarves (completly non-canon), but the rest was pretty good, providing a rather detailed map of known parts of Moria.
Keep in mind that, being a Decipher supplement, this was more geared toward D&D-esque adventure, rather than TOR narrative style.

Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:33 pm
by Valarian
Personally I was thinking more along the lines of the PCs accompanying Balin on his expedition, between 2989 and 2994. Over the 5 years they established a beach-head in the 1st Hall. They managed to clear through to the Chamber of Records where the fellowship found the tomb of Balin. They also had a route to the western door, as they tried to leave that way once the eastern gate was retaken. The company could aid the dwarves in taking Moria, and then leave before the fall. Perhaps to take news back to Erebor that the expedition was a success.

Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:01 pm
by Glorelendil
trystero wrote:Elfcrusher, I think the abstract mechanism you propose sounds great: it reminds me nicely of the "Lead" and "Allies in Battle" ad hoc rules used for pursuit and mass combat in parts of Tales from Wilderland, and as such feels like a good way for TOR to treat wanderings through Moria (or Goblin-gate).

Would you need two separate ratings to track? Might it be easier to just have a single "Lostness" rating that rises as the company falls away from its intended route or direction of travel? You mention both numbers rising as the group wanders: are there situations where only one number or the other would increase?
Not sure yet. My first intuition is that there's a difference between knowing you're lost and knowing how to fix it. I like the idea of there being a hidden variable that only the LM knows. Maybe one for the players and one for the LM?
And would these ratings interact with regular journey Hazards at all? I'd almost be inclined to have "Lostness" add to the Hazard trigger number (so that with Lostness 1, any failed Travel roll showing the Eye or a 1 on the Feat die triggers a Hazard episode), though that might be too punitive.
Absolutely some interaction. Not only does being off-course make it more likely that you'll stumble into trouble, but Fatigue rolls are harder when you know you're lost.

One of the mechanisms I am toying with is to create a bunch of Moria "decision points" (e.g. the stairs up, stairs down, or straight ahead choice faced by Gandalf.) Instead of rolling randomly whether the party gets lost, the LM does the following:
1) Picks or randomly determines a decision point and describes it to the players.
2) Picks (or rolls) which way is correct
3) For each player who is attempting to navigate, the LM then makes a secret roll that determines the strength of that player's intuition. Above 50% the LM tells the player the correct way; below 50% he tells the player an incorrect way.
4) The players decide whether or not to go with the intuition.

So with several players attempting to navigate the party could go with consensus, or intentionally do the opposite of whatever the least skilled player says, etc.

E.g.:
LM: "You come to a three-way intersection, with stairs going up, stairs going down, and a passage going straight ahed. (ROLLS) Nar, you think it's straight ahead. (ROLLS) Eardil you also think it's straight ahead. (ROLLS) Meriadoc, you think it's up.
Nar: "Straight ahead it is."
Eardil: "Definitely!"
Meriadoc: "Hey!"
LM: "Ok, after an hour the tunnel ends in a collapsed pile of rubble. You hear the skittering of small feet. Everybody roll Awareness."
Meridaoc: "See?"

I've started sketching out some Hazard tables, too. Similar to the ones in the additional rules supplement compiled by Rich H., but Moria-specific.

Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:09 pm
by Yusei
Valarian wrote:The company could aid the dwarves in taking Moria, and then leave before the fall. Perhaps to take news back to Erebor that the expedition was a success.
I've been thinking a lot about a Moria campaign too, but I believe it should be seen as a Titanic campaign: we know the destination, but the journey's what's important.

If you allow the PCs to survive, then they can't possibly discover anything important.

Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:38 pm
by Mim
Elfcrusher wrote:My goal is for the adventure to start off with players saying, "Oh, this is bad..." but every time they think it can't get worse, it does. Shadow points piling up, food & water running out, the way out less & less clear....

To avoid it being a pure dungeon crawl I'm working on a plot that involves a number of possible allies found in Moria. Some can be trusted, some can't.
Since you asked us for feedback, my two pence is that you're on the right track if you write it just as you describe in your above quoted post. Build the suspense (& horror - per Francesco's post) till your players are certain that it's a TPK, a slow, painful TPK :) . If they escape, they should consider it just that, an escape. The whole dungeon crawl/find the treasure thing will spoil the atmosphere of Moria.

Valarian: I wonder if Gareth's wistful quote a few months back about his wishing to do a "Moria campaign" would take place during the time between The Hobbit & the LOTR - thus including Balin. That would rock.

Yusei: I agree, the journey's the key to venturing into the Dwarrowdelf. Just imagine the hazards! Whoa ;)

Re: Moria

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:03 pm
by SirKicley
I highly recommend to help in research of such a campaign design, one play through the Moria expansion of Lord of the Rings Online; or read through the LOTRO wiki about each of the quests, and the dynamics there of.

There was a lot of fantastic elements in there that can no doubt fuel the fire of your imagination when designing the adventures.

Robert