Valour and Fear

[Robin Smallburrow]

See the discussion below, I raised similar concerns IIRC:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6560&hilit=valour

Robin S

[atgxtg]

I think what might work would be if failing a fear test raised the difficulty tasks that require facing the fear. It makes sense too, since it would be a lot more difficult for someone to, say, fight a spider effectively, if he is deathly afraid of them.

Or, if you want to make the penalty for failing a fear test more severe, the character could just lose a point of Hope.

[Yepesnopes]

See the discussion below, I raised similar concerns IIRC:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6560&hilit=valour

Robin S

Thanks for pointing me towards this discussion

[jamesrbrown]

SOURCES OF FEAR
So, I was thinking more about Fear tests and a section about "Sources of Fear." For Corruption, we have four main sources: Anguish, Blighted Places, Misdeeds, and Tainted Treasure.

But for Fear, we could have: Dreadful Foes, Anguish, Blighted Places, and Peril. What do you think?

Yes, Anguish and Blighted Places make both lists, but that is because I think they could easily go either way (or both ways, i.e., it may be appropriate to call for a Corruption test and a Valour test during the same episode for similar reasons).

If acceptable, each category would need to be fully explained in a few paragraphs, especially why and how the source of Fear could keep a hero from spending Hope.

CONSEQUENCES OF FEAR
For "Consequences of Corruption," we have: Bouts of Madness and Degeneration.

Again, I'm just throwing stuff out there, but for "Consequences of Fear," we could have: Panic and Dread.

Panic
Panic could be described as either freezing up, fighting recklessly, or fleeing a source of fear whenever a Fear test is failed with an Eye (freeze, fight, or flight). The choice would be up to the player.

• Freezing up could prevent a hero from taking any actions at all for a number of rounds equal to 7 minus his Valour score (or something similar).
• Fighting recklessly would force a hero to confront the object of his fear with abandon. While doing so, he would be considered greatly hindered in addition to being unable to spend Hope.
• Fleeing from the source of Fear is obvious in its affect on the story, although use of the Escape combat task may be needed in a combat situation.

Dread
Like Degeneration, Dread could lead to the development of Flaws. But in this case, each Flaw could be based on one of the four sources of Fear, rather than a hero's Shadow weakness. For example, if a hero fails a Fear test showing an Eye when facing a Great Spider, he could develop Fear (Dreadful Foes).

Having a Fear Flaw automatically imposes the restriction of not being able to spend Hope when facing that type of fear, but a Fear test should still be made. If the hero fails, he suffers Panic and Despair rather than Panic and Dread (since he cannot gain a Fear Flaw he already has). Despair causes him to lose 1 point of Hope on a failure and 2 points of Hope on an Eye.

Invoking Fear Flaws
Once a hero possesses a Fear Flaw, the Loremaster can invoke it to trigger a Feat-reroll or a Failure Aggravation in the same way he would for other Flaws. [This needs to be explained more and examples need to be written.]

Courage
Players could be given the option of spending 1 point of Courage to remove a Fear Flaw (but only after passing a Fear test associated with the object of his fear with a great or extraordinary success).

Specific Fears
An alternate to the four Fear Flaws would be to allow an unlimited number of specific Fear Flaws. This would allow for things like Fear (Great Spider), Fear (Gruesome Killing), Fear (Blight), or Fear (Fire), etc. Anytime a hero faces his fear and fails the Fear test, he suffers Panic and Despair as described above.

Those are my thoughts for now.

[Yepesnopes]

I fully agree with the Anguish and Blighted Places.

As for the addition you propose, I would like to have something along the lines. I have been a long time player of Warhammer and CoC, definitely if there is something I miss from TOR is a more developed rules on the impact of fear and terror, something like the ones you propose. Ah! and some rules for diseases

[SpottedBill]

I think it's pretty evident that Corruption tests are more common in most games. You can actually even see it in the rules when looking at Masteries: There are three different Masteries for Corruption and only one for Fear.

It might make sense to have everyone roll a Fear test at the beginning of every Combat. If that's too much, perhaps every Combat against superior numbers, for example. I think that would fit thematically. Battle is horrifying, and one who is not accustomed to it will have a hard time functioning efficiently. Characters with low Valour would often have to spend Hope to pass the test.

[Rich H]

I think it's pretty evident that Corruption tests are more common in most games. You can actually even see it in the rules when looking at Masteries: There are three different Masteries for Corruption and only one for Fear.

However, is Valour more useful in other areas of the game - eg, Rewards have better application/regularity in game than (on average) Virtues, or is Valour more used in interactions. I'm not saying this is the case and, subjectively or objectively, it may actually be otherwise but when discussing these kind of house rules the assumption that the RAW is balance across one segment of the game's system can be incorrect and lead to false conclusions.

In short: when balancing these elements, the whole of their usage in the game must be considered.

[tomcat]

SOURCES OF FEAR
So, I was thinking more about Fear tests and a section about "Sources of Fear." For Corruption, we have four main sources: Anguish, Blighted Places, Misdeeds, and Tainted Treasure.

But for Fear, we could have: Dreadful Foes, Anguish, Blighted Places, and Peril. What do you think?

Yes, Anguish and Blighted Places make both lists, but that is because I think they could easily go either way (or both ways, i.e., it may be appropriate to call for a Corruption test and a Valour test during the same episode for similar reasons).

If acceptable, each category would need to be fully explained in a few paragraphs, especially why and how the source of Fear could keep a hero from spending Hope.

CONSEQUENCES OF FEAR
For "Consequences of Corruption," we have: Bouts of Madness and Degeneration.

Again, I'm just throwing stuff out there, but for "Consequences of Fear," we could have: Panic and Dread.

Panic
Panic could be described as either freezing up, fighting recklessly, or fleeing a source of fear whenever a Fear test is failed with an Eye (freeze, fight, or flight). The choice would be up to the player.

• Freezing up could prevent a hero from taking any actions at all for a number of rounds equal to 7 minus his Valour score (or something similar).
• Fighting recklessly would force a hero to confront the object of his fear with abandon. While doing so, he would be considered greatly hindered in addition to being unable to spend Hope.
• Fleeing from the source of Fear is obvious in its affect on the story, although use of the Escape combat task may be needed in a combat situation.

Dread
Like Degeneration, Dread could lead to the development of Flaws. But in this case, each Flaw could be based on one of the four sources of Fear, rather than a hero's Shadow weakness. For example, if a hero fails a Fear test showing an Eye when facing a Great Spider, he could develop Fear (Dreadful Foes).

Having a Fear Flaw automatically imposes the restriction of not being able to spend Hope when facing that type of fear, but a Fear test should still be made. If the hero fails, he suffers Panic and Despair rather than Panic and Dread (since he cannot gain a Fear Flaw he already has). Despair causes him to lose 1 point of Hope on a failure and 2 points of Hope on an Eye.

Invoking Fear Flaws
Once a hero possesses a Fear Flaw, the Loremaster can invoke it to trigger a Feat-reroll or a Failure Aggravation in the same way he would for other Flaws. [This needs to be explained more and examples need to be written.]

Courage
Players could be given the option of spending 1 point of Courage to remove a Fear Flaw (but only after passing a Fear test associated with the object of his fear with a great or extraordinary success).

Specific Fears
An alternate to the four Fear Flaws would be to allow an unlimited number of specific Fear Flaws. This would allow for things like Fear (Great Spider), Fear (Gruesome Killing), Fear (Blight), or Fear (Fire), etc. Anytime a hero faces his fear and fails the Fear test, he suffers Panic and Despair as described above.

Those are my thoughts for now.

Hello James,

I am looking at Fear as an article for the HOF and I was wondering if I might work with your ideas here?

Please let me know.

Thanks!

[jamesrbrown]

Hello James,

I am looking at Fear as an article for the HOF and I was wondering if I might work with your ideas here?

Please let me know.

Thanks!

You are welcome to do that. Thanks.

[tomcat]

Excellent!

Full credit will be given.