Half-elven Heroes?

[Otaku-sempai]

As TOR campaigns continue to advance, the advent of Half-elven Heroes seem inevitable. Some Elven Heroes are sure to fall in love with Mannish Heroes, resulting in a new generation of Peredhil (when Loremasters don't forbid it). I've seen it argued that the choice of the Peredhil did not extend beyond the children of Elrond. Can we get some official guidance for how to treat these new PCs? Would they be subject to a choice between Immortality and the Gift of Death, like that faced by the brothers Elrond and Elros, and the children of Elrond? Or would they be like the Edain, long-lived yet counted as Men, without a choice (unless given special dispensation from the Valar)?

I'm dropping the term Peredhil as it seems to only apply to the brothers Elrond and Elros and the children of Elrond.

[Angelalex242]

I'd say all half elves are given the choice. To be counted among the Eldar or to be counted among men. They actually default to Eldar till they get around to making the choice. (Note, Arwen's a thousand+ years old by the time she chooses to die with Aragorn)

[Otaku-sempai]

I'd say all half elves are given the choice. To be counted among the Eldar or to be counted among men. They actually default to Eldar till they get around to making the choice. (Note, Arwen's a thousand+ years old by the time she chooses to die with Aragorn)

Maybe, although Elrond's children were given a time limit: The choice was to be made by the time that Elrond left Middle-earth. Because Elladan and Elrohir remained in Middle-earth when Elrond took ship, it is often assumed that they became Mortal, like Arwen. Tolkien left no record indicating that either passed into the West at a later date.

It might be simpler for Loremasters to assume that the choice only applied to the descendants of Earendil and Elwing, and only then to the children of those who chose to live as the Eldar. Hero Half-elves might be more like those of D&D, mortal but with a life-span several times that of ordinary Men, and sharing some of the traits of their Elven parent. They would be much like the Dunedain, but perhaps tending to be shorter and slighter in build.

[Angelalex242]

Well, the bottom line is, there's no precedent for it in the books.

So half elves are up to LM Discretion if they exist at all. Personally, I'd say 'it is for all half elves like it is for Elrond and co, you get to pick, and the time limit is pretty darn generous.'

[Beran]

I would discourage the use of Half Elven PCs. Half Elves are rather rare in the background.

[Rich H]

I would discourage the use of Half Elven PCs. Half Elves are rather rare in the background.

I'm with Beran on this, and would in fact simply not allow them as PC races. Far too rare.

[Woodclaw]

I would discourage the use of Half Elven PCs. Half Elves are rather rare in the background.

I'm with Beran on this, and would in fact simply not allow them as PC races. Far too rare.

I second this position, as far as I can remember the bloodlines of eldar and edain intermingled only two or three times in the known history of the Middle-Earth. Also, considering that the eventual offspring had to choose the fate of either elves or humans, this would make the whole deal kind of irrelevant.

[Otaku-sempai]

Well, the bottom line is, there's no precedent for it in the books.

So half elves are up to LM Discretion if they exist at all. Personally, I'd say 'it is for all half elves like it is for Elrond and co, you get to pick, and the time limit is pretty darn generous.'

Of course there are precedents: Elrond and his children; Elros. Even Earendil and Elwing can be called Half-elves. Although, technically, the term Peredhil should not be applied here since we are not talking about the descendents of Earendil and Elwing.

I wasn't thinking so much of a combination of the Eldar and Edain as your Wood-elf Hero falls for another player's Dale-woman Heroine (or vice-versa) and they have a Half-elven child (or two or three) who becomes a second-generation Hero. I can easily imagine this happening in a long-running campaign. And I don't think that it is a given that any such Half-elves would have the same choice as the Peredhil. The Wood-elves, and even most of the Sindar, have never been to Valinor and any half-human children they have might automatically share the fate of Men. I can, however, see how they might have a life-span like that of the Edain (as much as 500 years).

[PaulButler]

Yeah... I've been wondering about this myself.
As much as I would be loathe to ever allow it, as my group nears the beginning of DoM, I find myself with a Woodman character who has developed a bit of a crush on an Elf NPC. LOTS of opportunity for drama there, and frankly, looking to the future, and hopefully developing relationships and children for all the PCs.. this is the only thing that has developed even remotely organically. It'd be a shame to throw that away.

Although to be honest, I'll probably use it as a source of drama and not children. But it almost seems unfair to that player when this thing is developing so nicely. It's so hard to pull off love and relationships in RPGs without them feeling forced.

Maybe when all is said and done, many game years from now, when the character retires (or dies) I could let him run a child of the Elf woman, one who knows that once, for a brief moment, his mother felt the love of a Mortal man.

[Otaku-sempai]

Yeah... I've been wondering about this myself.
As much as I would be loathe to ever allow it, as my group nears the beginning of DoM, I find myself with a Woodman character who has developed a bit of a crush on an Elf NPC. LOTS of opportunity for drama there, and frankly, looking to the future, and hopefully developing relationships and children for all the PCs.. this is the only thing that has developed even remotely organically. It'd be a shame to throw that away.

Although to be honest, I'll probably use it as a source of drama and not children. But it almost seems unfair to that player when this thing is developing so nicely. It's so hard to pull off love and relationships in RPGs without them feeling forced.

Maybe when all is said and done, many game years from now, when the character retires (or dies) I could let him run a child of the Elf woman, one who knows that once, for a brief moment, his mother felt the love of a Mortal man.

This is what I'm talking about. What Loremaster wants to put restrictions on love? If this helps, this topic was touched upon it the TORn boards in a discussion of Elrond's children:

... Tolkien wrote [in Quenta Silmarillion] that any person with any measure of mortal blood was automatically mortal-fated, unless other doom was granted to them.

This was not taken up by Christopher Tolkien into his constructed Silmarillion, nor does he explain why he didn't include it -- I'm making no judgement there I'm just saying it's hard to tell [as far as I'm aware at the moment] if Tolkien held to this idea, or would have, later in life.

And in reply:

The mortal blood giving the gift on men is actually hinted at in The Silmarillion in the Chapter "Of the Voyage of Earendil and The War of Wrath", When the Valar are discussing the fate of Earendil - either to judge him as a man, or as a Noldorin Elf (who are under the doom still).

All this suggests that any PC Half-elves would likely be mortal-fated.