Miserable at zero Hope?

[fbnaulin]

A character with zero Endurance is considered exhausted and drops unconscious. Rules tell explicitly that characters don't forget to check Weary if it wasn't already. (AB p.142) I guess this is the case when Fatigue is zero, as well (so, Endurance and Fatigue are made equal at zero, adventurer becomes Weary).

There is no a similar remainder for Hope. We know that a character with zero Hope becomes Spent, but in this case if Shadow score is zero, is he considered Miserable too? I think so, because Hope zero is equal to Shadow zero. But, I'm in doubt, since Spent and Miserable seems to be incompatible states.

Thanks.

[Rich H]

I don't think a character should be Miserable at zero Hope, assuming total Shadow is also zero. The Miserable trait is specific within the game to Shadow outweighing Hope and therein leading to a bout of madness. If a character's Shadow is zero then they don't have any and therefore cannot succumb to madness. In cases where Hope is zero, as well as Shadow, then being 'spent' is more fitting. Miserable doesn't come into it.

[Glorelendil]

Yeah with zero shadow you shouldn't succumb to shadow sickness. You just maybe aren't the life of the party.

[Angelalex242]

Then again, at 0 Hope...

Is it possible to get 'madness locked?' The character with hope 0, shadow 1...goes nuts, and his shadow is reset to 1 permanent shadow, which is still higher then his 0 hope, he rolls an eye and goes mad again, permanent shadow now 2...

[Marko]

Then again, at 0 Hope...

Is it possible to get 'madness locked?' The character with hope 0, shadow 1...goes nuts, and his shadow is reset to 1 permanent shadow, which is still higher then his 0 hope, he rolls an eye and goes mad again, permanent shadow now 2...

I’d say it’s possible. But if your situation really urges you to spend your last point of hope, really bad stuff is already happening. So I’d say it’s okay if then the character will suffer from this big time. It will make the tale of success even more exciting.

[doctheweasel]

Then again, at 0 Hope...

Is it possible to get 'madness locked?' The character with hope 0, shadow 1...goes nuts, and his shadow is reset to 1 permanent shadow, which is still higher then his 0 hope, he rolls an eye and goes mad again, permanent shadow now 2...

Not likely. A character at 0 Hope is Spent and shouldn't be making rolls anyway.

[Angelalex242]

Well, a character with 0 hope could still be persued by something with Fell Speed, and there's such a thing as survival instinct that has nothing to do with hope.

[Stormcrow]

The rules simply say, "A hero is considered to be Miserable when his Hope score is equal to or lower than his Shadow rating." Nothing says his Shadow has to be greater than 0.

Technically, a hero with 0 Hope and 0 Shadow is both Miserable and spiritually spent. Notice there is no Spent status; just check the Miserable box. The character will resist making any task rolls (by fleeing, etc.), and if forced to roll a test he will be at risk of entering a bout of madness.

[Rich H]

I really don't think that a character should succumb to a Bout of Madness and therefore gain a point of Permanent Shadow if they have no Temporary/Permanent Shadow to begin with. The rules also state that after a Bout of Madness has occurred and a permanent point has been recorded the Temporary Shadow should be reset. That hardly fits in with a character being able to have no Temporary Shadow. This is probably a gap in the rules but I think it makes far more sense for a character that has no Shadow Points to not incur a permanent one under these conditions than it is to incur one.