Magic-biased (but non-wizard) culture

[Glorelendil]

Nicely done. I like it.

[Southron]

To get back to something close to the OP's ideas, I'd really appreciate some opinions on the following material (I originally posted it elsewhere but only got limited feedback):

So I've got a player whose character is on a long-term goal track of learning more about magic and associated lore. I've been thinking recently about different ways to represent magic appropriately in The One Ring. Using the Virtue system seems to be the right way, since that's how the official rules represent their magical bits. So how about this Virtue:

The Lore of Men:
You have learned ancient secrets and have the ability to see and know the minds of men in ways others cannot. You may learn up to three spells: the truthful gaze, a commanding voice and the knowing mind. You must choose one spell when you first select this Virtue, and you may learn a new one by spending one Experience point as your undertaking during a Fellowship phase.

The Truthful Gaze
Pippin looked straight into his eyes. The wizard held his gaze for a moment... "There is no lie in your eyes"

You may spend a point of Hope to invoke this spell and choose a single subject for the spell. You must be able to look directly into their eyes at close range for the duration of the spell. During this time you may ask a number of questions of the target (no more than your Wisdom score at maximum). The target is under no compulsion to answer but if he or she does answer, you will know the general veracity of the answer (as the target knows, so if the target has been lied to, a false statement can still ring true).

A Commanding Voice
Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment.

Casting his tattered cloak aside, he stood up and leaned no longer on his staff; and spoke in a clear cold voice... "Not all is dark. Take courage, Lord of the Mark for better hope you will not find."

A person with the commanding voice spell may spend a point of Hope and then choose either to use Wisdom or Valour in order to make a suggestion to a single target. If the caster's rank in the chosen score exceeds that of the target, then the suggestion is treated as a command. If the scores are equal or the caster's score is lower then the suggestion remains just that. The target will not follow any commands that do not provide some rationale as to why he or she would take that action.

Using this spell may cause the caster to make a Corruption Test. Using the spell to cause harm to anyone else gains the caster an automatic Shadow point.

The Knowing Mind
"He has long sight. He can perceive, if he bends his will thither, much of what is passing in the minds of men, even of those that dwell far off."

The caster may spend a point of Hope and select a single target. If the target is well known to the caster, the target does not need to be in sight. If the target is a stranger to the caster, the target must be in sight. The caster is able to determine the surface thoughts of the target (in mechanical terms, the caster will know what skill or ability the target is most likely to use next). This spell does not include the ability for two-way communication, nor does the target have any way of knowing that he or she is being probed.

Acting on the knowledge gained from this spell may cause Corruption Tests or even an automatic point of Shadow if used for evil intent.

----

As you can see, I tried to make the spells subtle and also have a bit of an edge to them... Men always are tempted by the power of the Shadow and can easily be swayed to commit evil acts. But these spells are not evil in themselves, its all about the application of them.

Also, there is some synergy... obviously a Commanding Voice and the Truthful Gaze work in concert for a successful interrogation.

So what do people think? Too much? Not enough?

I'm also thinking of doing other Lores... Perhaps Lore of Plants, and Lore of Beasts. Maybe a Lore of Fire, a Lore of Ice, a Lore of Seeming? Perhaps that's going too far though...

I think that they are very well done.

[zedturtle]

Thanks for the kind words... I guess I will post the other lores here too and see what folks think:

The Lore of Beasts
You have studied the creatures of the natural world and have sought to understand them and their needs. In time you might learn to speak to certain animals, to find them in the wild without the need of sight or spoor and to handle both wild and tame animals with such care as to make a miraculous transformation possible.

The Speech of Animals
The Men of Dale used to have the trick of understanding their language, and used them for messengers to fly to the Men of the Lake and elsewhere.

When learning this spell, the caster chooses a category of animals with which to converse... song-birds, canines, and ursidae (bears) are all viable choices. The caster can then spend a point of Hope to begin a conversation with a representative of that animal. Some animals may value Wisdom, others will prefer Valour. In every case, the encounter always has a Tolerance of the caster's appropriate score and the animal is under no obligation to remain in the conversation or to tell the truth (or anything at all). Most animals will be concerned with their own needs first and foremost, the deprivations of the Shadow and the doings of the Free Peoples make little impact on them most of the time.

Beast-Sense
No folk dwell here now, but many other creatures live here at all times, especially birds. Yet now all things other than you are silent. I can feel it.

When casting this spell, the caster spends one point of Hope and names a type of animal. He or she then receives a sense of how many of that type of animal are present in the local area and can elect to learn where the nearest representative of that animal can be found. The caster also receives a general sense of the creatures' demeanor (scared, hungry, content, etc.). The spell is limited to a range in miles equal to the caster's Wisdom.

Beast-Care
The stay in Rivendell had worked a great wonder of change on him; he was glossy and seemed to have the vigour of youth.

This spell may do one of three things when cast: calm an enraged animal, gain loyalty in a tame animal or improve the attribute level of a loyal animal. Each use of the spell requires one point of Hope and the two latter effects require that they be accomplished during a Fellowship phase. A loyal animal will follow its master into dangerous situations and may in extreme situations fight or sacrifice itself for its master. Using this spell and then purposing using the animal's loyalty to inflict harm onto the animal is worth an automatic Shadow point.

---

Some ideas for Beast-lore, again I don't know if these are too weak and always trying to have an edge of danger into the spells that provide control over others.

[zedturtle]

The Lore of Seeming
This lore deals with how people perceive the caster. The caster may choose to be easy to miss in a crowd, or to seem more noble than warranted or, in time, to be able to change his or her very appearance.

Oft-Overlooked

By spending a point of Hope, the caster can cause his presence to be overlooked by those not directly searching for him or her. This spell can only function in crowds or dark spaces, a solitary person in an empty room will gain no benefit from this spell. Other characters can use appropriate skills at TN 14 to notice the caster. Using this spell to perpetrate evil acts may cause Corruption tests or automatic Shadow points.

Noble Mien
He seemed to have grown in stature while Eomer had shrunk; and in his living face they caught a brief vision of the power and majesty of the kings of stone.

By casting this spell and spending a point of Hope, the caster can add a bonus to the Tolerance of an encounter equal to half of their Wisdom score, rounded down. This bonus is in addition to any other modifiers (such as Standing or Prejudice) that would normally modify the encounter. Note that some beings of immense age and experience (such as a Dragon, a Wizard or certain Noldor) may see the glamour for what it is and dismiss it.

Other Guise
And he beheld me. Yes, Master Gimli, he saw me, but in other guise than you see me here.

Each time the caster casts this spell, he or she must pay a point of Hope and then may change one aspect of their appearance or physical traits (such as the timber of their voice). Each effect generated lasts until the next sunrise or sunset. Thus, several effects can be layered to create an effective disguise. The caster must know both Noble Mien and Oft-Overlooked to learn this spell and again, some powerful beings will be able to pierce the glamour to see the truth laying underneath.

---

I feel these are appropriate, but haven't found textual justification for at least one out of the three (and at least one of the others is stretching things a bit). Again, I feel like I'm almost making things too hard but then I'm not looking for D&D magic in TOR either. Argh!

[Beleg]

I think these are brilliant. I had a player who wanted to use magic and I came up with the idea of someone really into the lore of it as well, and eventually I believe I had Radagast teach him to converse with animals, but I think your way is SO much better

[Glorelendil]

I think this is the right path. The textual justifications are great, but more importantly the 'magic' isn't flashy, fireball stuff.

[Mim]

You've done a great job on these. I agree with your take on using Cultural Virtues as a theme, which is what I'm doing as well. You describe the spells with the appropriate references, & they don't (appear) to be overwhelming in terms of game/Middle-earth balance.

[Rich H]

Excellent stuff zedturtle, really nicely done!

[Otaku-sempai]

Magic as Cultural Virtues does seem to be the best way to proceed in light of the RAW. Recent posts include some excellent suggestions for how to incorporate more magic into the game without overbalancing magic-using characters.

[zedturtle]

Cool, thanks all! It's great to get such a response... mayhap I will spend some time working on the other Lore ideas. Plants seems feasible and there's some precedent for Fire, but Ice seems on shakier ground. Anybody got any suggestions for those or for other Lores?