Need help understanding TOR

[Beleg]

Pathfinder is definitely one of the more complex games out there!

I completely agree with this. Also, Orientalist, I watched the video you linked to, and I think he got the wrong end of the stick. There is very little maths involved in TOR, unless you count adding your wits score to 6, 9 or 12 maths. It is also very abstract, and I would argue the stance system is better without miniatures.
Glad you aren't giving up

[Orientalist]

Argh, I don't want to derail this thread, especially since I have received a lot of awesome advises here (and super nice people too! ), but to me Pathfinder is a very easy system. I am only using the rules from the Beginner Box. They are enough. You can run five million sessions with the basic rules alone, no need (for me) to buy the other one thousand Pathfinder rule books, but only if you want to. I have been playing Pathfinder with children as well, one 8 years old and one 12 years old. No problem at all for them to get the idea and have fun playing the game.

The One Ring (together with Torchbearer, Burning Wheel, Shadow Run) is the perfect example (for me) of analysis paralysis. It seems to me you cant take half a step in The One Ring without taking ten other things into consideration. I am not giving up yet but that's because I am so in love with the work Cubicle 7 done on the books but frustration, sure, that remains and blossoms with each passing day. I sound like a broken record by now, I am sorry.

[Elmoth]

As we have said several times, TOR is way simpler than Pathfinder, burning wheel and the like. Do not mix them up You get the basic mechanics in the message I posted above. It is not that complicated, really.

Basic system for everything: XD6+D12, base target number 14. If you roll a Gandalf rune it is an auto-success (basically a critical). If you roll an eye of Sauron bad stuff happens (basically a fumble). That works for any action you want to do. Ever (with a small change for combat). An ability of 3 should give you an average of 2/3 success.

In combat you select a Stance (4 of them). To attack or do stuff you roll XD6+D12 as well. You need to beat a number(+target parry) depending on your stance. The stances are important because you are also hit yourself using that number+ your parry.
- If you score a hit you cause the damage of your weapon.
- If you score a hit AND rolled one 6, you add your Body to the damage.
- If you score a hit AND rolled two or more 6s, you add your Body*2 to the damage.
If you rolled equal or above the Edge of your weapon, the enemy needs to roll his Armor and equal the Injury of your weapon. If he does not, he becomes wounded (and suffers normal damage as well). If he goes above that, he suffers normal damage (you hit him after all). Normal enemies die if they are wounded, while harder targets like trolls need to be wounded repeatedly for them to go down. This IMO is way less complicated than Pathfinder combat by a large margin.

Spending a point of Hope let you add the characteristic associated with the ability (for combat abilities it is Body) to a roll. You add the Favoured characteristic value if it is one of your favoured abilities.

When weary, discard all the rolls of 1-2-3 in the die. If you are wounded twice, you die.

And that is it. There is not much more to the system in all the rulebook. As you can see it is not that complicated and does not have that many related stuff.

Xavi

[Corvo]

Another one chiming in to say that TOR is far simpler than Pathfinder or Burning Wheel.
TOR is more like, say, Call of Cthulhu as rules go:
in CoC the mechanic is "d100, roll under the skill", with some bits added for the combat.
In TOR it's "roll xd6+d12, add up", with target normally 14, with some bits added for combat. If the player want, he can spend Hope and add his stat to the roll, but it's just a player's problem, the master don't need to worry about it.

No miniatures, attack of opportunity, spell books...
Really Orientalist, it's far simpler than you think

[Rich H]

Another one chiming in to say that TOR is far simpler than Pathfinder or Burning Wheel.

No miniatures, attack of opportunity, spell books...
Really Orientalist, it's far simpler than you think

To be fair, Orientalist *has* clearly stated that he only uses the Pathfinder Beginner's Box which is a far simpler and lighter than full Pathfinder - eg, no AoO, cut down selection of feats, etc.

I think all the (perceived) complexities of TOR stem from it's extremely poor organisation and how the rules are scattered across two books. I reckon people that have difficulty understanding this game would not have the same issues if it was re-organised.

[Elmoth]

I think all the (perceived) complexities of TOR stem from it's extremely poor organisation and how the rules are scattered across two books. I reckon people that have difficulty understanding this game would not have the same issues if it was re-organised.

QFT. TOR is great in content, but the organization of it is poor at best. For not saying one of the poorest RPGs out there in that field. Thank god PDF search function.

[fjw70]

As I am familiarizing myself with the system my issue isn't necessarily the general complexity but too many little fiddly bits. One example of this are the attributes. Three attributes are great and clean, then you have a favored version of each (instead of applying a straight +2 when using a favored skill).

Also the advancement system has too many moving parts. AP are gained during the session and are used to increase common skills. XP is gained at the end of the session and is used to increase weapon skills, wisdom, and valor, then wisdom and valor can grant you virtues and rewards. Much more complex than it needs to be.

My regular group likes a lot of fiddly bits to play around with, but when playing with my son I like to keep thing very simple and just play. The core mechanic for the system is pretty simple but the rest of the game seems more complex than it needs to be.

I am thinking about removing a few things (the shadow corruption for one) and standardizing the advancement resources.

[Curulon]

Why, though? The Shadow Corruption is so important to the core idea of the game - resisting the pull of the enemy, ect.

Also, I find TOR to be one of the LEAST 'fiddly'/complex systems out there.

[fjw70]

As I mentioned in another thread I would probably set the game in a time after Sauron's defeat so the shadow really wouldn't exist.

As far as fiddliness (okay so that isn't a word) I am not saying it is too fiddly compared to other games just too fiddly than it needs to be IMO. However, it is probably me. I find most RPGs more fiddly than they need to be.

[Curulon]

As I mentioned in another thread I would probably set the game in a time after Sauron's defeat so the shadow really wouldn't exist.

As far as fiddliness (okay so that isn't a word) I am not saying it is too fiddly compared to other games just too fiddly than it needs to be IMO. However, it is probably me. I find most RPGs more fiddly than they need to be.

The Shadow exists due to the Marring of Arda, though. Sauron's defeat doesn't destroy the Shadow, really. It still lingers, it just doesn't have a 'master' physically present in Middle-earth - though if you play with the idea of the Blue Wizards becoming Dark Lords or some such thing, it might.

The Shadow will truly be destroyed in the Dagor Dagorath, when Morgoth is ultimately defeated forever.