Weapon ranges way too short?

[Glorelendil]

As a general (and semi-serious) consideration, I think that precise, misurable arrow ranges are not so meaningful if not linked to precise, misurable movement ranges and terrain rules.... something that we happily wing because too much of an hassle.

Player: "how far is the easterling archer?"
LM: "40 meters"
PL: "I'll charge him"
LM: "he let loose 3 arrows while you charge him..."
Pl: "3?? I'm running downhill! Would he loose 4 arrows in 40m if I was in plain? He's some goddam Legolas?"
LM: "ehm... well... there are... raspberries. Lots of rasperries bushes that hamper your charge"

Ooh, use blackberries. They can be nasty.

[Angelalex242]

Actually, that's when I'd point out 'No, Legolas (and most other elves) would get /6/ shots on you, because they get an extra opening volley with woodland bow for every round there is one.'

[Woodclaw]

As a general (and semi-serious) consideration, I think that precise, misurable arrow ranges are not so meaningful if not linked to precise, misurable movement ranges and terrain rules.... something that we happily wing because too much of an hassle.

Player: "how far is the easterling archer?"
LM: "40 meters"
PL: "I'll charge him"
LM: "he let loose 3 arrows while you charge him..."
Pl: "3?? I'm running downhill! Would he loose 4 arrows in 40m if I was in plain? He's some goddam Legolas?"
LM: "ehm... well... there are... raspberries. Lots of rasperries bushes that hamper your charge"

I guess that the range table is meant more for the LM than the players.

[Rich H]

I guess that the range table is meant more for the LM than the players.

That's certainly how I employ it and when explaining it to the players (and their characters) offer up more descriptive explanations - eg, close by, far enough away for a loosing a hurried shot, at long enough range for one or two aimed volleys, etc.

[Beleg]

Rich's last point just made me had a thought... the Prepare Shot action is rather powerful, but requires a round of action to do. Would any of you allow players staging an ambush to make their opening volley as though they had had an extra round in which to prepare their shots due to the fact it's basically up to the characters when exactly they attack?

[Woodclaw]

Rich's last point just made me had a thought... the Prepare Shot action is rather powerful, but requires a round of action to do. Would any of you allow players staging an ambush to make their opening volley as though they had had an extra round in which to prepare their shots due to the fact it's basically up to the characters when exactly they attack?

I think it makes sense, although I would only allow this once, unless they forfeit another opening volley to do so again.

[Rich H]

Rich's last point just made me had a thought... the Prepare Shot action is rather powerful, but requires a round of action to do. Would any of you allow players staging an ambush to make their opening volley as though they had had an extra round in which to prepare their shots due to the fact it's basically up to the characters when exactly they attack?

I think it makes sense, although I would only allow this once, unless they forfeit another opening volley to do so again.

Yeah, agreed. I think it makes perfect sense that the first opening volley could be a Prepared Shot under the right conditions - eg, the companions' scout spots a group of goblins approaching along the forest path. Rushing back to his fellowship they all find suitable vantage points that allow them to spy the goblins walking down the path and thus giving them time to prepare their attack.

[Beleg]

A good. Glad I'm not the only one thinking about it this way. Cheers chaps

[Mim]

Stormcrow describes it wonderfully in keeping with the game's generally abstract rules, & this is how I LM.

Tolwen adds a solid point about the ranges, especially from the Hundred Years War period. This is admittedly post-late Antiquity/early Medieval, the period(s) that match Middle-earth, however, IMHO, Tolwen is correct.

Sir John Keegan covers this topic brilliantly in his classic The Face of Battle.

In his chapter on Agincourt, he notes that the English bowmen (apparently) launched their first volley from a range of about 300 yards from the French. Their arrows rose to a height of 100 feet before they descended upon the French. The latter, who entered the battle more heavily armored than warriors would be in Middle-earth, probably did not suffer unduly from this first volley - many of the arrows probably deflected from their helmets, shields, & armour with a resounding din. They did cut down a number of horses, which impeded but did not stop the assault. The succeeding volleys loosed at the rapidly closing ranges, however, devastated the French. Sir John makes a compelling argument about the effective battle ranges .

[DavetheLost]

Because the game is not overly concerned with precise tactical measurement, a Good Thing, I am happy to describe ranges as "bow shot", "a spear throw", just out of range, etc.

As for prepared shot and ambuscade, one thing an archer waiting in ambush would be well wise to do is to set a couple of range stakes at measured distances, or pace off the distances to a couple of terrain features, maybe even take a couple of practice shots if time permits. Luxuries that often are not otherwise available. Doing this. Allows the archer to know with great confidence that when the Orcs come abreast of that maple sapling they will be at perfect range.

Mind there is also Legolas shooting a Nazgul out of the sky with one arrow to consider...Not that he is on a level with most PCs, but it shows what is possible.