Two weapon fighting

[bencoulthard]

Apologies if this has already been covered. I did have a quick look about but couldn't find anything.

No sooner had we rolled up characters than the first question I got asked by a player was could he use two weapons... I couldn't find anything about it in the rules so I'm wondering what other people have done.

One approach to take (which I think is more realistic) is to say that the advantage of having two weapons is two-fold a) you can choose between two weapons to make your attack and b) if you get disarmed you still have a spare - but having two weapons doesn't give you two attacks.

Another thing I was thinking was that maybe if a person has two weapons they could just split their attack in two so that someone with 4 ranks in Dagger could split that across two attacks, making one at 3 and one at 1, or 2 at 2. They'd gain the advantage of rolling two feat dice but that could also be seen as twice as much chance for a nasty failure.

A third way might be to say that if a person scores a great success or better then they can follow up their first attack with a number of extra attacks equal to the number of tengwar runes they score, which is a bit like what some of the enemies can do. With every additional attack happening at one less dice/rank each time.

Ultimately, two weapon fighting is a cinematic cliche - but that won't stop the players from wanting it so if anyone has any idea how to handle it then please let me know.

p.s. I love the look of TOR stuff - are there templates available that we can use to make our own adventures look like the official ones?

[SirKicley]

I don't have the links handy but there were at least three threads on the old board regarding this topic.


safest thing is - don't do it.


the next safest thing is to just tell the player they can describe their character attacking in any fashion they choose including two weapons.....but that it doesn't change their mechanics. still only make one attack roll and damage.


the worst thing you can do is allow two attacks.

[MordorsB1tch]

The Laketown supplement has a shield fighting virtue which allows extra damage from the off hand weapon (shield) from time to time. I see no reason a parrying dagger or off-hand blade couldn't be substituted using the same mechanic. It might require a little tweak but there is something in the rules that would seem to support it.

[Yusei]

I guess it depends on how you're using your off-hand weapon. If you're using it to parry, and occasionally attack when you see an opportunity, then a parry bonus and allowing a second attack (more difficult) after a tengwar rune seems good. If you're using it to constantly attack, then maybe split the success dice between the two attacks.

[bencoulthard]

I like the 'don't do it' suggestion... helpful :>)

Thanks chaps - I hadn't spotted the laketown shield thing - and I like the idea of saying that a second weapon is being used to parry (maybe let them have a +1 bonus for a dagger like a buckler, or +2 for a sword like a shield)... purely make it a visual thing but don't change the overall mechanic of there only being one hit delivered at the end of all the twirling, ducking and poncing about.

Much appreciated.

[bencoulthard]

For anyone interested in two-weapon fighting this is the house rule I've implemented:

Two weapon fighting
When a character opts to fight with two weapons then one weapon is assumed to be the attacking weapon and one a parrying weapon. Only short or medium length weapons can be used to parry in combination with another main weapon i.e. dagger, elven blade, shortsword, hand axe. The advantage conferred by having a second weapon (apart from the obvious spare and choice of weapon types to attack with) is that fighting in such a way confers the same parry bonus as using a buckler shield (+1). Acceptable combinations would include daggers/hand axe x2, elven blades x2, a normal sword and a dagger/hand axe, a normal spear and a dagger/hand axe, etc.

Note: Two-handed weapons confer no parry bonus because they trade off damage against unwieldiness - and normal fighters have the option of using shields (which are better for parrying than weapons, but which don't offer the utility of a second weapon).

I think this makes two weapon fighting useful without being over-powered.

[Stormcrow]

No sooner had we rolled up characters than the first question I got asked by a player was could he use two weapons.

This is usually a sign of a munchkin looking to maximize his combat dominance. Be wary!

[Rich H]

I use the following Virtue, tied to the Slayer Calling:

DUAL WIELDING
You would die before your stroke fell.

Forgoing a shield drastically lowers defense, but it does free the hand for other tasks, like pulling another knife. In untrained hands, such abandon oft proves fatal, but for the adroit or talented, it can be a vicious combination. You wield two, one-handed weapons with lethal grace and potent skill. This is limited to club, dagger, hand-axe, mace, morning star, short sword, and sword. The encumbrance value of both weapons must be calculated for determination of Fatigue (paired daggers have an Encumbrance of 1). One weapon must be designated the primary; the other is the secondary. The bonus of dual wielding depends on current Stance:

Forward: Reduce Edge of the primary weapon by one.

Open: Increase Injury TN of the primary weapon by two.

Defensive: Add a parry value equal to the Encumbrance of your secondary weapon (not paired total, just a single weapon, so swords add +2 parry to a minimum of +1).

Otherwise, in all cases, only a single attack roll is ever made and no more than a single target can be attacked per turn.

... I like it as it costs a Virtue to acquire (ie, training/development) and has some different mechanical applications (ie, stance variations). It's also simple.

[SirKicley]

No sooner had we rolled up characters than the first question I got asked by a player was could he use two weapons.

This is usually a sign of a munchkin looking to maximize his combat dominance. Be wary!

hehe - that's precisely why I suggested the safest thing is: don't do it.


Glad you liked it, Ben.


That being said - I primarily meant that warning (advice) for a new LM. After learning the ropes of the mechanics and seeing it in action, a feasible houserule can be conceived. I think what you proposes if fantastic, and very similar to what I have proposed as a houserule; which is to require a VIRTUE selected, for the fighting style. (I believe fighting with two-weapons provides the most versatility - either with the mechanic of the weapon i.e. which injury/damage/Edge, and how you use them). The VIRTUE allows the user to select each turn - upon selecting their stance what weapon they will use and apply one of the following: +1 to PARRY, +1 To Attack Roll, or +1 to Damage. A second VIRTUE allows the player all three bonuses simultaneously AND select from either +1 EDGE or +1 INJURY TN each round.)


So far no one has selected it (though one player did consider it a lot) over archery or sword and board or two-handed style. So maybe I hit a sweetspot in that it's not TOO lucrative; but has drawn interest.

Good luck. I think you're on the right path.
Robert

[bencoulthard]

Thanks chaps - all very useful stuff. I binned my two weapon combo house rule 5 secs after I'd put it up as someone realised it rendered the buckler obsolete.

The guy who asked about two weapons is an old mate who's been gaming for years... no danger of him going full-munchkin on us - he was just asking.