SIze of a warg?

[Elmoth]

Hi!

One of the PC in our game is a hobbit with the small virtue. OK so far. He gets a defence advantage against big orcs (but not snaggas and the like, that are basically is size and much smaller than a man). But what about wargs? What is the size of a warg? and a spider? I am not sure about these. VOlves are certainly his size, so he gets no bonus, but I am not sure about the more intelligent animals.

Thanks
Xavi

[Rich H]

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Wargs

... I'd say that if you think wolves are hobbit sized, and therefore the Small Folk trait isn't applicable, then Wargs are larger and therefore give the advantages of the hobbit trait. Personally, having seen wolves up close, I'd actually suggest they could be slightly larger than a hobbit (at shoulder height) and certainly are bigger from nose to tail. With that in mind, I've always applied the advantages of the Small Folk trait when facing them, nevermind Wargs.

For spiders, I think you could vary the size as there are some that are certainly hobbit-sized, or smaller, and others that are larger.

[Angelalex242]

On wolves vs. hobbits...remember, you're essentially comparing an 6-8 year old to an above average German Shepherd. Like, police dog quality. I'd say the German Shepherd wins, and wolves are slightly bigger then most German Shepherds.

[Rich H]

... Wolves are underestimated by many people; often seen as *just* a fairly big wild dog. These alpha predators can run for amazing distances, comfortably sustaining speeds of 40 to 50 km/h (I think they have been tracked at up to 70 km/h although I'm not sure over what kind of distance), and leap up to around 5m. They're incredibly dangerous animals.

[Evening]

What is the size of a warg?

As large as you want them to be.

If you'd rather a miniature size comparison, here's a typical size.





and





and

[Beran]

... Wolves are underestimated by many people; often seen as *just* a fairly big wild dog. These alpha predators can run for amazing distances, comfortably sustaining speeds of 40 to 50 km/h (I think they have been tracked at up to 70 km/h although I'm not sure over what kind of distance), and leap up to around 5m. They're incredibly dangerous animals.

Not to mention their ability to communicate over wide distances and to use co ordinated attack patterns when tracking and bringing down prey. A Warg (bigger and more intelligent then a wolf) would be a very terrifying animal to face.

I could see the hobbit getting the benefit of his size against a Warg.

[Elmoth]

The size comparison corresponds to Games Workshop miniatures. Those are nice, but equal to Jacksonian wargs, so are not necessarily kosher around here. Jacksonian orcs are almost double the size of orcs in the books, for example (they are as big as scrawny human adults, or bigger), and I tend to believe that other dark creatures are more or less doubled in size as well.

Ok, hobbits get the size bonus vs wargs then and will roll a die for spiders Thanks all.

Xavi

[Arthadan]

I think Wargs are certainly bibber than any Hobbit because they must be enough to carry the Goblins riders.

Xavi wrote:
Jacksonian orcs are almost double the size of orcs in the books, for example (they are as big as scrawny human adults, or bigger), and I tend to believe that other dark creatures are more or less doubled in size as well

.

That's something I've read around here quite a few times. Let me post some quotes from The Hobbit:

Out jumped the goblins, big goblins, great ugly-looking goblins, lots of goblins, before you could say rocks and blocks. There were six to each dwarf, at least, and two even for Bilbo;

They were big for Bilbo. Dwarves weren't, so they were at least bigger than a Dwarf meaning they are at least the size of a short Human.

There in the shadows on a large flat stone sat a tremendous goblin with a huge head, and armed goblins were standing round him carrying the axes and the bent swords that they use.

Of course the Great Goblin was the biggest of them all. "tremendous" sounds lke he's taller than your average Human.

The passage was low and roughly made. It was not too difficult for the hobbit, except when, in spite of all care, he stubbed his poor toes again, several times, on nasty jagged stones in the floor. "A bit low for goblins, at least for the big ones," thought Bilbo, not knowing that even the big ones, the ores of the mountains, go along at a great speed stooping low with their hands almost on the ground.

So there are small and big Goblins. The big ones are certainly taller than a Hobbit, although when they run they stoop. If we assume that Goblins have Human proportions, and they run "with their hands almost on the ground" it means that standing straight (when not running) they can be twice as tall as a Hobbit which means Human size.

Now, let's see which size were the Warg-riders:

The goblins gathered again in the valley. There a host of Wargs came ravening and with them came the bodyguard of Bolg, goblins of huge size with scimitars of steel.

At least Bolg's guard were Goblins of Human (or bigger size) riding Wargs. So Wargs need to be big enough to carry them meaning than Peter Jackson was not far off regarding Wargs size!

[Elmoth]

hmm... I think you might be making quite a stretch from the text you quote, specially the first point (from where the rest of your argumentation seems to follow). The whole thing you quote seems to indicate that goblins are the size of a hobbit, not of a human. Would need to find sources and I am at work, but I am fairly sure that the uruk hai are not taller than humans and normal goblins are more along the lines of dwarves and hobbits than humans.Tjheir arms are said to be long while they have generally humanoid complexions.

To illustrate the point, this is what the LOTR wikia says of their general appearance. it cites no sources, though:

In Tolkien's writings, orcs were cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted, and hated everybody and everything, particularly the orderly and prosperous,[6] short in stature and humanoid in general shape. They were squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, bow-legged, with wide mouths and slant eyes, long arms, dark skin, and fangs. Tolkien describes one "huge Orc chieftain" as "almost Man-high", and some of Hobbit height such as the smaller orcs and footsoldiers. Sometimes, death was preferable to the torment of Orkish life.Their eyes were crimson gashes, like narrow slits in black iron gates in which hot coals burn. They were cannibalistic, ruthless, and terrible, and often their rending claws, and slavering fangs were gored with the bitter flesh and the foul black blood of their own kind.

[Glorelendil]

And what, exactly, is a gimlet?

We need a stat block for gimlets. Special ability: See in the dark like themselves.