Keening Bog-stone

[Rich H]

Some good examples there, Stormcrow, I think those will help people.

Not sure about the last paragraph though:

And if the player gets annoyed with that and declares that his character will always be listening for the keening of the stone (there's one in every game), the LM should say, "Fine. But if you forget about it, your character forgets about it too." Protests of "but my character would remember things I don't" should fall on deaf ears.

Personally, I'd rather avoid such challenges and put-downs in the games that I play and run. I think if the player forgot, which is only natural - they are visitors to Middle Earth whereas their characters are permanent residents, then I wouldn't be so dismissive.

[DavetheLost]

If arguments about whether or not the character was paying attention to the Bog Stone are going to become a major feature of game play it might be worth revisiting the social contract for your gaming group. To be blunt, life is too short to waste it gaming with jerks. I know that if I do not enjoy gaming with people I do not game with them. Gaming is a hobby, not a religion or a way of life. It should be fun. I have seen too many gaming groups hat are composed of people who only come together for the game and do not even like spending time together outside of the game.

If you are playing with the sort of player who is going to read through the books and decide to play a Lakeman with a Bog-stone just because of the perceived advantages, I would suggest that a) TOR may not be the right game for that player, and b) that style of play is likely to cause issues unless all the players enjoy it.

[Mim]

I still hesitate about introducing one into my game, but these posts raise some great points about how a stone only affects creatures with Hate Sunlight or Denizen of the Dark, or how the hero may not 'hear' it. Thank you . I'm still inclined to avoid using one, but I'll have to mull these points over. That said, however, you'll have to be careful adjudicating it to avoid offending your player - he may feel 'railroaded.'

BTW, thanks to these comments I now anticipate the rules for Elven blades even more!

[Garn!]

On a slight tangent, what would you folks rule in a situation where you've got a Lakeman with a Keening Bog-stone who is standing close (5 feet or less) to a player with a high Awareness? Another player has Quick of Hearing? Or the stone's in a pocket with some coins which might add a metallic clinking because of vibrations, with another player nearby?

I'm asking more for completeness than anything else. This way all the potential issues - and the answers! - are in a single topic.

Personally, I would:

• Quick of Hearing: Notices the sound.
• High Awareness: If within 5 feet (ie, melee distance in most games) the Aware character is likely to hear the bog-stone. For every +5 feet I might increase a TN by +2. (Note: I'm not saying I would demand a check every time, just that I might use something like this as a general guideline for determining if they could hear it.)
• Metallic Clinking: Another character within 5 feet, without either above abilities, and the surrounding area is not distracting (sound or movement), maybe at TN 16. Impossible beyond that distance. So your average froggy marsh, cricket filled field, bear wandering past, or farmer asking for news, would completely distract others from noticing.

As noted though, I wouldn't necessarily offer these options to any of the players unless they think to question why their character didn't notice the sound, along with providing a reasonable explanation why they should have heard the sound.

[DavetheLost]

Garn! I would tend to rule similarly to you.

I still wonder how common Keening Bog-stones are going to be in actual play. They are one option available to one culture. It's not as if every character in the game can just pop down to the shop and buy one.

They do come with the trade off of not getting any of the cool stuff that other cultures and gifts can bring. Even if your campaign heavily features orcs and goblins as opponents is a Bog-stone the best option to give the fellowship an edge? What if you are facing mostly corrupt men or wicked dwarves?

[Rich H]

I still wonder how common Keening Bog-stones are going to be in actual play. They are one option available to one culture. It's not as if every character in the game can just pop down to the shop and buy one.

They do come with the trade off of not getting any of the cool stuff that other cultures and gifts can bring. Even if your campaign heavily features orcs and goblins as opponents is a Bog-stone the best option to give the fellowship an edge? What if you are facing mostly corrupt men or wicked dwarves?

I think the concern initially raised in this thread morphed into a concern about players and LMs remembering it is present that about it being overpowered, which is why the majority of posts recently have been with regard to addressing that issue (which more of us shared as a concern).

[DavetheLost]

I think my point is equally relevant to players and Lore Masters remembering it is present. If no-one is carrying one, or the Fellowship never encounter a triggering foe, the question is moot. How many players are actually going to choose to play a Lakeman with a Keening Bog-stone as their character?

As a game master this is the sort of item that I take careful note of. I will even write it on a sticky note to put on the inside of my GM screen. I also note the effects it could have on encounters during adventure design. I prefer to design adventures for specific groups of players and their characters rather than simply writing generic adventures and then adapting them in play.

This sort of thing shows up in the novels, as when the goblins of Goblintown recognize "Biter" and "Beater" or Frodo reminds Gollum that he has seen Sting before.

[Rich H]

I think my point is equally relevant to players and Lore Masters remembering it is present. If no-one is carrying one, or the Fellowship never encounter a triggering foe, the question is moot.

Well, obviously, but discussions are about if a PC has one.

As a game master this is the sort of item that I take careful note of. I will even write it on a sticky note to put on the inside of my GM screen.

Yeah, I've done the same but that kind of stuff is easy to forget. In my Amber campaign one of the PCs had a demon familiar (a little flying imp type thing) that had Danger Sense. I used to forget that all the time, even with a note of it. In that respect I used to have the imp fly off when he sensed danger without telling the PC. Worked a treat but it's not something that's possible for a stone, unless you get Radagast to stick it to a sparrow or summink.

I like the ideas upthread though from Garn and Stormcrow.

[bencoulthard]

Thanks for the comments chaps. You've explored the same kind of topics I discussed with my players. Thank you to Francesco for commenting (we're not worthy) - and just in case he thought my initial post was a little terse - it wasn't meant to be :>) I think the One Ring is one of the bravest, most interesting, story oriented rpgs to come out in ages and long may it prosper.

One mechanic I consider for the future might be an item whose benefit is combat advantage dice - in fact a glowing sword or bog stone could work like this - giving the players a bonus that they can choose to use to their advantage in a fight rather than a straight detection of the enemy ... could work?

Is there a place on this forum to submit home made adventures as I created a starter adventure the other day that went rather well and was quite atmospheric and it'd be nice to share it.

[Rich H]

Is there a place on this forum to submit home made adventures as I created a starter adventure the other day that went rather well and was quite atmospheric and it'd be nice to share it.

Cool! On the old forum people just used to create a thread and post them - just do the same here. I look forward to reading it.