Mithril!

[Otaku-sempai]

To me, there are a couple ways a character could acquire a mithril armor:

Spending XP on valor to upgrade their initial armor: After a certain number of upgrades, the character simply exchanges his/her armor for a mithril armor. The mithril armor would have plot immunity like any other reward. Applying Cunning Make and Close Fitting 7 times each to the same armor won't change the material from which it is made.

Getting one as a gift, or finding it as part of a treasure, in which case the armor does not have plot immunity. This is the path I would tend to favor. After all, Bilbo and Frodo did not have 6 points in valor when they each acquired the mithril armor. Plus, the armor can be lost or stolen (see Rocmistro's comments on the armor inciting dragon-sickness).

I don't think that mithril should be available to simply purchase because the material is so rare and expensive. Perhaps that might be different in a First or Second Age campaign. In my own opinion, the only ways that a Hero should be able to acquire a mithril item is: 1) it is gifted to him/her for an extraordinary feat, or 2) it is found as treasure. I tend to be against plot immunity for arms and equipment anyway, on general principle.

[Rich H]

I don't think that mithril should be available to simply purchase because the material is so rare and expensive. Perhaps that might be different in a First or Second Age campaign. In my own opinion, the only ways that a Hero should be able to acquire a mithril item is: 1) it is gifted to him/her for an extraordinary feat, or 2) it is found as treasure.

Two excellent points, in my opinion, of which I totally agree with.

[Glorelendil]

You know, if we're saying that reward items are plot-proof, then you could fluff weapon qualities by saying that it has nothing to do with the weapon itself, it's the technique of the wielder, perhaps (e.g. in the case of the family heirloom) combined with emotional attachment to the item.

[Beran]

I don't. It doesn't happen in my game and I wouldn't agree with it happening in anyone else's as a solution.

Here we agree with each other.

Where's this shirt come from again, Beran? If the theoretical LM has allowed it in his game then he's already come up with his houserule for it so how do you know whether he's found it, made it, or bought it? Or not?

I'm not sure where you are going here. Should the LM not know where the item came from instead of the PC having a plain shirt of armour, then add 3+ qualities and "poof" it is suddenly a mithril shirt? I think there should be some thing there.

I really don't see an issue with having a player charctrer explain why a piece of equiptment suddenly changes on such a fundamental level. Like I said I don't have a problem with a sword suddenly being keen...as LM I would assume that during the FP he found a master smith who did a little work for him, no problem. But, if he were suddenly to start calling a piece of armour mithril then I would require him to explain how that came to be. From there we can work on additional cost of treasure points and any necessary mechancial issues for the new item...because this type of change would be a new item and not an ability that was already there and just now activated.

I am quite content to play in the RAW, however, that doesn't mean that my head will not be shaking when a kind of silly situation like this one arises (Hey! Everyone look I just turned iron into mithril ). Frankly, the fact that I am thinking about the issue and about easy ways around it should prove that I am, indeed, interested in the system as a whole. What it comes down to is that in my games I just prefer to be the one handing out the magic toys. But, I am also content to have the PCs build their own as well...within reason and the occasional explaination.

[Rich H]

I'm not sure where you are going here. Should the LM not know where the item came from instead of the PC having a plain shirt of armour, then add 3+ qualities and "poof" it is suddenly a mithril shirt?

I stated in my post you're quoting that I reject such an idea so the rest of my comments were based on you stating you had difficulty with [certain] qualities being added, ie:

Like Aragorn, this player isn't going to give up his family heirloom to get a "better" sword with a new quality, and probably isn't going to be too keen on having a smith tinker with it when they don't absolutely have to.

... But if you really meant it 'becoming' Mithril and weren't referring to the qualities defined in the rules then I agree (as per my previous posts on the subject).

[Rocmistro]

I'm not sure where you are going here. Should the LM not know where the item came from instead of the PC having a plain shirt of armour, then add 3+ qualities and "poof" it is suddenly a mithril shirt? I think there should be some thing there.

I am (I think) the one that kind of suggested this, so I think it's my duty to explain what I meant.

I didn't mean that the item suddenly transformed from whatever it was to now being Mithril.
I just meant *mechanically speaking*, the player can now call it Mithril. How that happens is up to the player and LM, as it is in all cases. Here's a couple plausible answers:

-The item always was Mithril, the hero just didn't know about it. Perhaps he didn't know what Mithril is/was. Perhaps it was covered by some kind of glamour or enchantment that protected it's true nature. Maybe it was covered in grime or dust, or paint or laminate to the extent that it couldn't be identified.

-Then again, maybe the original item was totally traded in and the hero received a gift from a powerful NPC like an Elven Lord or a Dwarven smith.

-Perhaps a Dwarven Smith or someone interwove into the armor some mithril links; just enough to change the quality of it to mithril. Perhaps it was dipped in liquid mithril (my least favorite of the plausibly explanations)

[Beran]

-The item always was Mithril, the hero just didn't know about it. Perhaps he didn't know what Mithril is/was. Perhaps it was covered by some kind of glamour or enchantment that protected it's true nature. Maybe it was covered in grime or dust, or paint or laminate to the extent that it couldn't be identified.

Wouldn't change the protective qualities of the item. It would be like me putting on a kevlar vest, but not getting the protective abilities of the vest until i read up on what kevlar is.

-Then again, maybe the original item was totally traded in and the hero received a gift from a powerful NPC like an Elven Lord or a Dwarven smith.

Sure, I can agree with this. However, the heirloom problem falls into a situation like this; a PC wouldn't trade an item like that for a new quality. Particularly if it were integral to his back ground story.

-Perhaps a Dwarven Smith or someone interwove into the armor some mithril links; just enough to change the quality of it to mithril. Perhaps it was dipped in liquid mithril (my least favorite of the plausibly explanations)

[/quote][/quote]

You are right neither of these is very plausiable

[zedturtle]

Wouldn't change the protective qualities of the item. It would be like me putting on a kevlar vest, but not getting the protective abilities of the vest until i read up on what kevlar is.

Well if it had a glamour on it, it would be more like you buying a puffy orange vest in a second-hand store and then someone pointing out to you one day that if you pulled the ring on the vest it would transform into a wonderful floatation device.

Still, the whole idea of something "becoming" mithril seems to me off, hopefully Rivendell provides some answers for us.

[Beran]

"...hopefully Rivendell provides some answers for us."

That would be really nice.

[Glorelendil]

I just started reading House of the Wolfings, and in the first couple of pages it tells how these men had learned how to craft iron and steel...which gave me an idea for Reward fluff: if you raise your Craft when you raise your Valour, you forge yourself a new weapon.